The Glade 4.0

Noggel thanks for the analysis, I didnt notice the 2 extras in range but I wasnt paying attention. Wonder why they moved? hmm.

Anyway, i think it's our tanks that get asked to shift to DPS that have the hardest time. They're working on their offspec stuff though so it should only improve.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Talya nice gear there. I have that belt =p. I wish there was a super hard mode 10 that gave you normal 25 equivalent gear sometimes. Or maybe even a 15 man mode, but then it's getting too complicated I suppose.

I'm fairly close done on Dash as far as gearing goes. I need the stupid bracers from Gunship that STILL has not dropped ever. I need to buy a 264 belt with frost badges, I have the badges but which one I get depends on other gear so I've been holding off.

Need more marks for the upgraded T10.5. I'm hoping the legs drop in VoA =p

Not even bothering with Shadow's Edge or Shadowmourne. I have 0 primordial saronite, 0 level 80 alts to farm them, only 10k gold in the bank and we're not close to beating ICC 25 so meh.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... cn=Dashhal

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I am about ready to walk away from this game again. Frustration levels are high; I am in a raiding guild, but my work schedule makes raiding impossible.. my gear is not good enough to get into ToGC 10 PUG raids... and without getting into that stuff, I have no hopes of getting upgrades.

Aparently a gear score of 2480 is too low to do ToGC 10.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

When I get fed up with the progression on my main, I level another alt up to 80, and gear it up to reasonable entry raiding levels. It's quite satisfying, and having another toon to play with makes it easier.

That, or I go back and finish farming my BC reps to exalted....

Getting too tied up in my mains gear progression just frustrates me, most of the time.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Dude, you can get up to a gearscore of almost 5k just by getting triumph badges and running 5mans.

Or is that first 2 supposed to be a 5?

GearScore numbers differ depending on whether you use the add-on or wow-heroes.com or wowhead.com, etc.

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Once, I was a ranger
Then, I was a warlock
And a mage
And a paladin
Now, I seek to be myself

Even a wowhead/wowheroes gearscore, 2480 is low for ToGC 10. Fine for ToC 10/25, and borderline for ICC 10 DPS, at least the first wing.

At least IMO.

I know my characters are sitting around there, and that's what I feel comfortable with.

TOGC10 is a distinct step above the non-hardmodes.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

By what rating? Wow Heroes shows the highest on our entire server is 3271. Hell according to Wow Heroes: Even Taly's character is only 3129. So 5k seems a bit far fetched.

I could see 5k DPS achievable through triumph badges, but not 5k gear score.

FFS the top geared person in Blood Legion (US first Lich King kill) is only at 3415 gearscore.

Using the **** Gearscore addon; I am sitting at 4640 GS

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

And most people use the **** gearscore addon.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Actually, I can end the GearScore/WoWRating Debate right now. My Alliance Hunter has a lower GearScore/WoWHeroes rating than Taly's Hunter. Assuming the same player playing both, he'd beat her by 1500-2k dps.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zon ... e=Rathenel

As for acceptable DPS, I've been pulling 5k since Naxx and can hit 9k in 232 gear reliably (I have a set for all the people who whine about GearScore).

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Doesnt end the debate though. GS is a rough tool used mostly by pugs who dont know you from Adam. Any piece of quick information is better than nothing when trying to put a run together. If your GS is hovering around 4k, you cant do ICC 10 hardmodes. If it's 5800, maybe you can.

Sure you could inflate your score, and when I look on the Pally forums to try and help out, I see a TON of people with that 245 trinket that gives 128 hit, and they're literally 400 hit over the cap. I also see a ton of people that buy the 245 off set gear instead of T9 stuff and dont get the bonuses. Or maybe a DPS with a tanking wrist because it has a high ilevel. So yeah a good score is not necessarily going to translate into a good DPS/Healing/Tanking performance compared to a lower score but better itemized player.

On the flip side, the people complaining "it's not the gear it's the SKILL!!!" Yeah ok skilly, you go tank festergut in i187 blues. Let me know how that goes. Or try and out dps me in your crafted non tier gear. It's a item progression game, of course gear matters. Of course if you're perfectly geared and stand in fire, well yeah. Nothing is perfect right?

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

No, gear really doesn't matter. Premonition did Zero Lights in the Darkness with no items above superior quality and no items above item level 200 once the last time this argument raged around the internet.

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Well, why don't y ou test it for us, Khross. Go get yourself a suit of level 75-80 of-the-bandit greens and do a DPS comparison for us.

See, the people who say gear doesn't matter, still work their asses off to get gear upgrades. If it didn't matter, they wouldn't need them.

Gear alone isn't everything, but it does say two things:

(1) You have the recommended level of gear to support being an asset in a particular instance.
(2) You've got the experience to do a particular instance. (If you have a bunch of gear from TOC, chances are, you know how to do TOC.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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Taly:

I actually have a gear set for said circumstances I tend to do Heroics in Blues when I'm not with guildmates.

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Heroics are designed for people in blues. Please, tell me your DPS totals on--let's pick something simple...let's pick Patchwerk in Naxx...in your blues, compared to your DPS in your epics.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

It's really not arguable. The game is item based progression. If you know what buttons to push and where to stand, sure you can do content with lower gear levels. You could do it faster with better gear.

It's like saying level doesnt matter, my 40 druid has mad skills I can do it.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Talya:

Straight Blues, nothing over Item Level 200, is 5500 dps on Patchwerk.

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Impressive. And you do what, 11k in your epics?

And they don't matter? Doubling your DPS wasn't significant?

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Talya:

Not really. 5500 dps will get me through every normal mode boss before Festergut. And in another 8 weeks (or whenever it hits 30% on Strength of Faction Boss), 5500 dps will be enough for every normal mode boss in ICC25. It jumps up to 8000 dps with nothing that can't be acquired through 5 mans only.

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If everyone could stay out of the fire perfectly, gearscore wouldn't matter (for DPS at least).

A lot of people are terrible, however. If I were to run a PUG raid, I wouldn't accept people below a certain gearscore. I run the risk of turning away some good people, but the odds are definitely in my favor of having a more successful raid if I were to set some gearscore cutoff.

Hunters cheat anyway! It took way more gear on my Shaman to outdo my Hunter, who has something like 4 epics (all ilvl 200) and a bunch of blues, with the occasional S4 piece from pvp... last expansion. I don't think any amount of L2P is gonna get an Enh Shaman anywhere near 5500 dps in blues. :p

That said, I would never use gearscore as anything other than a minimum cutoff. It's terrible for comparing two well-geared players. There have been a player or two in my guild lately that are fond of GS and we were talking about it some, and I am 12th in my guild... largely for one reason: ilvl 213 Illustration of the Dragon Soul. It's a caster equivalent of sorts to the Darkmoon Card: Greatness wherein it is way better than its item level. Maybe if I'm doing Hard Modes I'll need more mana regen such that I can swap in 226 Sif's Rememberance or buy the 264 Purified Lunar Dust for frost emblems, but until then they would both be downgrades.

And of course, even if you set aside cases like that, there's simply no correlation between gearing well and actual skill. It's probably more likely, I suppose, that those who gear right play better. I know at least two people in my guild who read up a lot on theory and for whatever reason still put out very subpar dps. They answer all the questions right, but... I don't know. Or my guildleader (and myself, for that matter, though I'm usually healing so it's not as relevant) who gets 2 fps on some boss fights for the first minute and can't top 9k as a pretty decently geared Ret. Or you get those people that do great dps but are totally unable to switch targets to kill something important, or stand in the fire half the time anyway. Etc etc etc. So many more things than just gear. :p

I do a lot of pugs on Weekends for Server Community Service. I don't check Gear Score. I take people in Blues and Greens. And, yet, for some reason, we never have any problem clearing ToC25 and ICC 25 through Blood Council (including Festergut and Rotface).

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There's no way. No. Freaking. Way.

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Holy shitsnacks!

IF everything goes well. That's a big "if."

The thing is, at 11000 dps, you could make up for 2 other DPS that stand in front of an icehowl charge without getting out of the way, or get locked up by Acidmaw poison, or stand in fire and die, and you can't do that with 5500 dps. Every extra bit of DPS makes the raid easier. Every extra bit of tank hit points and defensive (parry/dodge/block) ratings makes the tank less likely to die. Every bit of +spellpower makes that healer better at keeping people up. It all adds up. Doubling your DPS matters.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
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Easy content is easy, Arafys. I'm fairly certain I could get most pugs through Valithria and Lana'thel, too. Putricide might be a bit of an issue.

Talya:

Eh, Normal Mode Content is easy. The problem is Hard Mode Content, where the DPS Requirement for Festergut, for instance, jumps from 7241 per person to 10241 per person.

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And aside from your smug condescending superiority, the content is NOT EASY. In a 25 man pug of people who otherwise knew what to do, we couldn't take down normal mode twin valkyrs the other day. In 10 man normal ICC, our guild takes an entire night involving several wipes to down festergut and rotface, if we've got our "A" team in there. If a few of our "B" team show up, we might not beat Deathbringer Saurfang.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █