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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:55 am 
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Lucky Bastard
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So, expecting the worst and thinking my mother will not follow through with this because I just know she is not as willing as Oonagh and myself to face the music, so to speak...

What if this is the case? What do I do then?

Would I not be justified in keeping my family away from her until she decided to be a part of the solution. It is either get counseling with me and Oonagh, or you don't get to see me, your grandson, and your daughter-in-law (Not that she cares about Oonagh currently)

Regardless of her actions, I will continue counseling on my own, especially if she isn't willing to keep to it with me.

This is the brightest light in my awful family history that I can remember. I can't believe we are on the threshold of getting the help we all need. I still don't think my mother will allow herself to be a part of this, but maybe she realizes finally what is at stake here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:00 pm 
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You've been justified for writing her out of your life for well over a decade. Stop feeling guilty for her actions.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:14 pm 
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To be entirely honest, I don't think that you are ready to have a group counseling session with your mother, yet. You appear to me to be motivated by a desire to let your parents see your grandson, when you should be motivated by a desire to see your son develop a healthy relationship with his grandparents. The difference is subtle, but profound.

This is not about them anymore. They had their chance and they **** it up. At this point, your son's well-being must trump any sympathy and concern you have for your parents. If they are too crazy for your son to have a healthy relationship with them, they are done.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
To be entirely honest, I don't think that you are ready to have a group counseling session with your mother, yet. You appear to me to be motivated by a desire to let your parents see your grandson, when you should be motivated by a desire to see your son develop a healthy relationship with his grandparents. The difference is subtle, but profound.

This is not about them anymore. They had their chance and they **** it up. At this point, your son's well-being must trump any sympathy and concern you have for your parents. If they are too crazy for your son to have a healthy relationship with them, they are done.


May be true, but regardless, I am completely ready and open to try and heal years of hurt with my mother, whom I am currently able to say that I hate with not an ill feeling about it.

I don't know if the same can be said about her. She will fail at this, I am almost certain. She rarely, if ever, even goes to see a regular Dr. and my dad has to practically FORCE her to take an aspirin for a simple headache. There is no way, in my mind, that she will be open about this.

Maybe she'll surprise me.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:16 pm 
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If she's not ready it really doesn't matter if you are.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
If she's not ready it really doesn't matter if you are.


This.

Be über careful mano. She sounds like an extremely manipulative *****. Like she'll do anything to get her way, and damn the torpedos. For the welfare of you, Oo, and yer kiddo. Seriously. Be careful.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:18 pm 
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Agree. The last thing you want is your mother telling your child her version of events repeatedly over an extended period. Get the situation under control first.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:16 am 
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My strength to keep this up is waning as the days pass.

I had a really good talk with my dad, but unfortunately, he is still dealing with hell from my mom since I and the baby haven't been around since Sept. 7th.

The understanding is that I am seeing my counselor on Monday 28th and she will advise me and Oonagh how to proceed so that I may include my parents in the sessions.

They called me this morning and are now pleading with me to "just come over". They want to see me and the baby. I told them again that I have to take care of myself and can't deal with them now. I don't want to talk to them without a professional present. They will not give me that. They want me to come over, they'll even call my brother and have him over too. I try to make them understand that I know nothing good will come of the meeting and don't wish to make things worse than they are.

They still make me feel wrong for caring about myself. They make me feel like all the hurting is from me.

I have never stood this strongly for this long. I usually buckle under the guilt. I am getting to that point now. I know that I can't back down, else all I stood for was for naught. I need the counselor so badly now. I don't know how long I can keep strong in the face of this.

I feel almost physically ill, and my mind is not in my work today. I don't know how I am going to make it through the weekend.

*gloomyface*

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:27 am 
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*hugs*
Most good counselors have an *emergency* contact person in lieu of themselves when they are not available. They sometimes have canceled appointments as well.
Guilt is a powerful thing....If you have at least once established with your wife and a professional that this is the best course of action, then you need to stick to it and not let guilt get in the way, or let yourself be swayed by pleading manipulations.
If your parents are really, truly, that desperate to have you and your wife and your son back in their lives, then they will do EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE ASKED THEM TO DO IN ORDER TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION.
If they have not done that, then they are not sincere.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:29 am 
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PS--Plan something fun. Family outing maybe? Something just the 3 of you, special bonding time. If you have a big bathtub and lots of bubbles, a family bath with baby could be loads of giggles.
Sounds like you just may need something to bond the fam and reconfirm what you are sacrificing for.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:36 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
*hugs*
Most good counselors have an *emergency* contact person in lieu of themselves when they are not available. They sometimes have canceled appointments as well.
Guilt is a powerful thing....If you have at least once established with your wife and a professional that this is the best course of action, then you need to stick to it and not let guilt get in the way, or let yourself be swayed by pleading manipulations.
If your parents are really, truly, that desperate to have you and your wife and your son back in their lives, then they will do EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE ASKED THEM TO DO IN ORDER TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION.
If they have not done that, then they are not sincere.


This is what I am afraid of.

They will not let me be for the short time it will take to get the ball rolling on this family counseling. They (Mom, moreso) do not seem to be truly open to this. Almost as if they think that one visit will be all it takes to fix everything.

Why do I feel like I am wrong in all of this. Why do I keep thinking I should let this all go? I can't deny my feelings about what is hurting me (decades of hate for my mom), but that is what they seem to want to make me do.

I know I keep repeating myself, but I need some sort of outlet for all this now. My coworkers are hearing about this everyday and Oonagh is at work and unavailable for most of the day. The Glade is the only ***** outlet that I have.

Also, thank you to all. Along with the words of the counselor, I have definitely taken much of the advice heard here to heart.

*fromtheheart* Thank you

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:55 am 
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You feel wrong because the situation stinks. You're parents are trying to make you think that you caused this mess, so you are the only one who can fix it...

Personal story that may help you:

Spoiler:
Example: I dated a guy for 3 years when my son was a baby/toddler. He was handsome, wealthy, successful, charismatic, intelligent, and talented. He asked me and my son to move in with him after a year of dating, and I did.
This man was an alcoholic and a drug addict and had a porn addiction. However, he was so far the opposite of every stereotype of all the bad things that he did, that no one suspected that a rocket scientist with government clearance could be that kind of guy.
Except me. Because he took it out on me at home. Every night.
He used to kick me out of the house once a week in a drunken fit. He'd sit in his chair watching TV, get **** faced, and out of the blue tell me to "get the **** out." There was no reasoning with him. It didn't matter that my son and I had nowhere to go. He would get up and through my stuff out on the porch, I would cry, and go get my son out of bed and put him in the carseat in the car. I would sit in the car, parked in the driveway and cry and pray. After about an hour, he would come outside and look at me like I was crazy and ask "What are you doing??" Then his voice would get all soft and sweet and he would help me out of the car, carry my sleeping son, and quietly say "come on lets go inside." He made me feel crazy, like I had just decided out of the blue to go sit in my car and cry with my belongings strewn in the yard.
Later, towards the end of our relationship, He OD'ed on coke and almost died....I called 911 and told the paramedics exactly what he had taken and how much....and his parents blamed ME when he got arrested! His mother insisted that I was the reason he drank and did drugs, and he wouldn't be in trouble if I had just flushed it down the toilet before the police got there.
I spent 3 years with this man taking him to church, Narc-Anon, AA, therapy, etc. I did **** that a woman can and it wasn't enough.

My whole point though, Foamy, is that I left this man and came back. Left him and came back. Left him and came back. I did it for 3 years. Why? Because I felt guilty. Because I felt like it was my fault. Because I felt like if maybe I would stop complaining everything would be ok. Maybe I was making to big a deal out of it. He was rich and handsome and charismatic and everyone loved him! It surely must have been MY fault! If I could just figure out what it is, EVERYTHING WILL BE OK, right??

I was so wrong. It took my friends having an intervention and even then I still didn't leave, until the night that I came home from work and he was not there but my baby boy was all alone and said "momma I scared!"

Don't let your guilt cloud your judgement. You will feel lots of conflicting things, but like me, hopefully, you will be able to look back at this years later and realize how awesome you were, how you tried everything and did your best....and hopefully didn't allow yourself to get as manipulated as I did.

*hugs*

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:29 am 
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I don't know how the hell you haven't reached the point where you extract pure ecstasy from their tales of their suffering. When they claim you are hurting them you should revel in the delight of the situation not wallow in some self-created pool of misery.

You don't need them - for anything. You have all the power and control and you are only manipulated by them when you allow yourself to be. Stop it. If that takes not answering their calls then do so. If that takes communicating with them only through your brother then do so. If that means never exchanging any information then do so.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:32 am 
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Foamy wrote:
Why do I feel like I am wrong in all of this. Why do I keep thinking I should let this all go? I can't deny my feelings about what is hurting me (decades of hate for my mom), but that is what they seem to want to make me do.

Because if they can convince/guilt you into thinking it's your fault, then it's no longer her fault. If she can get you to cave, she's not a monster or crazy; it becomes you with the problem -- at least, as far as she and her world is concerned. I've seen this elsewhere, and it sucks terribly.

Don't budge. Deal with her on your terms, which you've clearly laid out and established. They're reasonable terms; your therapist and everybody you talk to confirms this. Remind yourself of this often.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:34 am 
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Stay strong, Foamy.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:04 am 
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You are feeling guilty because your parents are the ones who tied the heart strings on, so they know all the ways to pull on them.

You're doing the right things. Keep focused on your immediate family's best interests and you'll make it through ok.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:19 am 
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THROW MORE DOTS! MORE DOTS!

You got this man! Just hang in there!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Keep strong Foamy. Be the man for your son that your father wasn't for you.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Consider this, why is she so insistent on seeing you before the counseling?

She wants to manipulate you into canceling the counseling and regaining her tyrranical matriarchy is the answer that immediately pops into my head. She has trained you to feel guilty when you defy her. The reason you feel that guilt now is because that is how you have been programmer since childhood. Defying your mother is one of the major sins in most cultures. Dad you can be manly around, but Mom is always supposed to be respected if not always obeyed.

Fight the programming, don't salivate when the bell rings.

Stay strong, keep your appointment with your counselor before you have anymore contact with your parents.

Hug Oonagh and the boy for me.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:27 pm 
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It gets hard when Dad and Bro join in the guilt-trip and really make me feel like it's all my fault.

Oonagh suggested I use her as a scapegoat, Mom hates her already anyway...
(ie. Foamy can't come over because Oonagh said so.)

I don't agree that this would help anything. I am doing my best to stick to my guns, keep the counseling session on Monday and communicate the plan laid out by the counselor to my parents once we figure it out.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Foamy wrote:
It gets hard when Dad and Bro join in the guilt-trip and really make me feel like it's all my fault.

Oonagh suggested I use her as a scapegoat, Mom hates her already anyway...
(ie. Foamy can't come over because Oonagh said so.)

I don't agree that this would help anything.


Don't use Oonagh as a scapegoat. This weakens your position, and it becomes all about "that ***** my son married" instead of "My son is being his own man and taking care of his family first"

Yes, it is all your fault. Its your fault you're standing up and saying "No more!" Its your fault you want your son to grow up with healthy relationships between family. Its your fault that you married a wonderful woman and mother to your son. It *is* your fault.

But its ok that its your fault, because you are striving to make it better. One man can only do so much. Stick you your guns, make sure they understand that its not because Oonagh is driving this, its both of you. United, you stand!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:09 pm 
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Foamy hold on.

You are doing the right things for the right reasons.

DO NOT SEE YOUR MOM outside of a counseling session. Frankly I doubt it would help even then.

Your family is backing her because she is the evil queen and she got them to parrot her evilness. Yes....evilness.

You are a good man, have a great wife and a wonderful son.

Sometimes things and relationships can be fixed and sometimes they can not. I suspect that this is not something that can be fixed. Protect your son and your wife (and yourself!).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:16 pm 
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block their phone numbers (selective call rejection), do not let your father come over until your mother is in therapy. Do not listen to their voicemails, etc.

Stay strong Foamy. You are doing what your mother has prevented your father from doing, you are being a real man and making sure that your wife and child come first.

You have my families thoughts and prayers on this

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Yeah, I'd just close all contact with them 100% until the therapy sessions. It's not doing you or your family any good.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Look after your son, and your wife. Dont let your mother poison that for you, or them.


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