The Glade 4.0

Or Vegas. Those places will suck the life right out of you, man.

Ugh. Nah, she friended me, and I only see the posts in question because they pop up via her News Feed.

Yeah, I can see the danger in that, but I do think there are a couple of important differences. First, I'm family (and we're a close family, so I'm not just some random uncle she gets a card from at Christmas), so I think concern and involvement regarding important life decisions is more reasonable coming from me, provided she welcomes it, of course. I would never impose my views on her or denigrate her own decisions (unless she does start protesting dead homosexuals!). And second, my hope is that she'll consider multiple religions and philosophies before deciding on a path, which is kind of the polar opposite of encouraging her to pick one now without ever seeing what the world has to offer.

That said, when all is said and done, I certainly do hope she'll choose a different path once she sees the possibilities that are out there. So in that sense, yes, I am trying to nudge her in "my" direction, just as her acquaintances from church are. The thing is, though, I don't blame them for what they're doing. The vibe kind of creeps me out at times, but I know they mean well. I simply disagree with their views, not their approach.

They're telling themselves the same thing, RD.

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That's fine. I still disagree with them, though, and hope that in the end my niece chooses a path closer to mine than theirs.

Why does this bother you?

I'm pretty much "F 'em and the horse they rode in on" so I don't understand how the thoughts of a bunch of fundamentalist church-goers matter outside a fundamentalist church.

I'm sure I've had a number of folks get together specifically just to pray for my soul, but I assure you I didn't feel a thing. Let's just say I agree with them - wherever I end up in my afterlife, I want it to go to the opposite of wherever it is they end up.

The 17 yr. old could be into drugs. Count your blessings, you've not really got a problem to speak of.

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In time, this too shall pass.

RangerDave:

Freedom carries with it in the inherent possibility that someone might do something you wouldn't.

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If you find somebody you really love in a deep and profound way, you don't dump them so you can see what else the world has to offer just so you can make sure you love her. I would consider this no different.

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The Dude abides.

RD, it's boiling down to this: you don't want her choosing this particular path, so you're pushing for her to "consider multiple religions and philosophies," in the hopes that she'll turn from this one and find one more closely aligned with your own.

That's sweet, and wholly well-intentioned, but selfish.

Ask yourself this: were she in college and decided to try dating a girl, would you react in the same manner? Would it be something from which you would actively attempt to deter her? Or would you simply shrug it off, saying "C'est la vie," and chuckle at those who thought it was the end of the world? Would you recognize it as experimentation, considering multiple sexualities before deciding on a path? What if, at 17, she decided she was a Wiccan? Mormon? Atheist? Would you still push a "try-others-and-see" philosophy, or would another flavor of religion simply be more palatable to you, and accepted without question?

I don't like to put words in others' mouths, but based on your posting history, I'd assume you'd be fine with that. Others in her life might react with anger or disapproval. Would you approve of them attempting to dissuade her from it?

She doesn't need "guidance." She's an adult, she's obviously much more introspective and mature than most people her age, and she'll work out for herself whether or not this path is right for her. It's not a clear-cut, right-or-wrong issue; this particular choice of religion may leave a bad taste in your mouth, but it may taste just fine to her. And while it's natural to seek out and enjoy similar opinions in others, there's not really any moral ground to expect her to follow your lead, nor is there a danger to her from which she needs to be protected.

The most you can do, as an authority figure in her life whose opinion may or may not hold weight, is as Aizle said: simply talk to her. You can (gently) voice your opinions, but don't project disapproval or expect anything from her, or even try to change her mind. Just tell her your own beliefs, but at the end of the day, make sure she knows that her choice is in fact her choice, and that all you want for her is to be happy.

One thing too I should mention is that just because a particular church preaches a particular brand of gospel, it doesn't mean that everyone there holds the same interpretations.

Thanks for all the comments, folks. It sounds like the consensus is pretty overwhelming that I should chill out and just let her do her thing, while perhaps at most making myself available for conversation if she's looking for it. However, I am curious if you'd all recommend a similarly hands-off approach if the belief structure and social group she were adopting was less congenial in your own eyes. For instance, let's say she were getting increasingly involved in the local Communist Party, where she was regularly being encouraged by peers and older mentors to view rich people as evil and regular people as misguided, and as a result, her social group was becoming more homogeneous (i.e. mostly other Communists), and her own comments and conversations were starting to be laced with boilerplate references to capitalists, American imperialism, the proletariat, and so forth? Would you still think I should just sit back, respect her choices, and be happy she found something that works for her? Or would you suggest I try to expose her to other points of view and thus encourage a less strident and one-sided view of the world?

*Note: Maybe I'm being paranoid, but just to avoid any misunderstandings, I want to say that there's no snark or defensiveness intended in that question. I'm just trying to get a fuller grasp of everyone's views on the issue.

LTTP: First off RD, sorry I didn't chime in sooner, life has been busy.

I agree with the general advice given, with a slightly different angle. If you push hard against something she sees as a positive in her life, the odds are high you will push her toward it, not away from it - and it will probably damage your long term relationship with her. You can do more than wait for her to come to you, tell her you will always be there when she needs you, to talk to about anything legal in at least 48 states, or to come get her if she's uncomfortable with where she is. Let her know you want what is best for her and understand her need for spirituality in her life. Stop there, back away. By telling her this you have already told her you don't trust these people, stressing that with further explanation is unnecessary and possibly harmful.

Now if it were politics, as your second example switches to, yeah, get in her face, make her defend her position, make sure she knows what she is talking about and not following the latest fad some of her friends are following. Explain the worldwide failure of anything resembling communism, and explain how China is not a communist state, no matter what they call themselves. You are now talking something you don't have to take on faith, or oppose on faith. You can point to real events, real examples, show how a communal farm is a whole world different from a communist state. You have the writings of the Communist literates, and you can show where they had some interesting ideas, but it just does not work because people are not worker bees or army ants.

Good luck with this. Faith in God is a whole different kettle of fish from political belief.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

How would you feel if she were leaning toward Atheism, instead of excessively fundamental Christian?

Honest question, not looking to start a fight/debate.

Depends on whether we're talking about "I don't believe there's a god" atheism or "I don't believe there's a god, and everyone who does is an idiot, just like Richard Dawkins says they are, and he's way smarter than any of those Jesus-freaks" atheism. In the former case, I wouldn't really be worried about it like I am about the devout Christianity, though I'd still encourage her to consider other possibilities. In the latter case...I suppose I'd still be less worried, but probably more annoyed. I generally find devout atheists far more grating than devout believers!

I guess it's really the "devout" thing that worries/bothers me.

Aye, she likes to bend my ear about history and politics whenever we chat, and I always let her do most of the talking while I just chime in with leading questions and "food for thought" comments rather than outright critiques or statements of my own views. I'm sure you're right that a similarly light touch is best in this situation. It's just hard to hold back when you see active recruitment/persuasion coming from the other direction, you know?

RD, I had a long post typed up, but it got swallowed by the intertubes. This one will be shorter.

I disagree with the common stance that you should stay out of it. A person's choice of faith is personal, but their expression of it is public. The practice of religion should be intellectually tested by the practitioner as well as the people in their life. She knows and respects you as someone who is thoughtful and well spoken, as well as involved in her life.
I am a bit dubious about your intentions, however. Your goal should be to help her fully understand her choice intellectually, not to dissuade her from making that choice. In order to rationally do this, you need to fully understand her choice. To that end, you should attend services with her, at the place of worship she is investigating.I'm sure you see the benefits of this approach, rather than "taking her to a better church", you'll learn more about her choice and be able to come from a place of inclusion and knowledge, rather than exclusion and ignorance. The side benefit to this is that you'll find out the "defenses" she is being taught regarding the most commonly attacked portions of this belief system. If you use those attacks, the pupil will immediately go into a defensive posture, and spit out the learned response; it's best to avoid this heheh.
Since I've said the above, I feel that I should say this as well (in the interest of you fully understanding your beliefs )
Dude, you're being a freaking bigot. You want her to believe what you believe, further, you don't want her to believe what you don't believe. Stating that it would be okay for her to be an Atheist and that even being an anti-Christian Atheist would be preferable to the choice she is making kind of gives you away.

Talk with her about it, don't talk to her about it.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

If I thought a hands-on approach worked ....

... but it doesn't. At that age, your only hope is to set an example and try to get some face time. I've seen people claim otherwise, and I've seen the kids who people claim they've influenced ... and I've seen those same kids in other settings. I've yet to be convinced. Making a positive change in a kids behavior when you're there isn't that hard, positively changing how they behave when you're NOT there is something I've always considered impossible. Kids themselves are the only one that can do that. It's like those folks that say they can be friends with their kids. Oh, theoretically I suppose it's possible, but if I saw an adult that wanted to be friends with a kid I'd keep an eye on them.

All said and done though, you gotta do what YOU feel is right. You'll win some, lose some, and break even more often than not...and you'll not know exactly how well you're doing for decades.

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In time, this too shall pass.

I think I said earlier: If you have something you can point her to that you believe in, by all means, do your best to save her soul. If you can't offer something to move to, don't tell her what to leave.

I believe instilling ethics and faith in their young is one of the primary roles of family. If you believe you know the truth, you should share it with others.

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The Dude abides.

I'm mulling over the advice so far and will chime in again later today. In the meantime, I just want to say thanks again to everyone for discussing this with me. I know I'm kind of saying to some of you, "Hey, you know that stuff you believe in very deeply? Well, I'm really worried my niece will start believing it too, so how do I talk her out of it?" *chuckle*

Very cool of you to engage the subject with me.

That's pretty uncool, actually. In fact, it's really uncool.

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What's uncool? Having a discussion on a message board?

share what you believe and why you believe it. Beyond that let it be.

RD:

Go the church with her a few times and then discuss what you've heard on the way back, and maybe during the stop for icecream on the way back.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I think you should strongly voice your opinion because this would give her more experience with social pressure. Being honest here too.

This is very disturbing. It sounds like you are saying that you basically object to people taking their own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) seriously.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I think he's saying he objects to Bery's way of thinking.