The Glade 4.0

I never once argued it was ok based on moral judgements. The dude broke the law, and HOLLYWOOD is arguing that it's ok because, well, still not sure why it's ok, but it's making me laugh.

No it's not. The defendant (or his lawyer whose duty is to explain it) always knows in advance that the judge doesn't have to allow the agreement, because that's how the system works. The agreement is between the defense and prosecution; the judge only approves it. The fact that the judge and the prosecutir work for "the people is irrelevant. The judge represents the law, not the people. That's the prosecutor's job.



You're not making a deal with the "legal system". You're making it with the prosecution.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

edit

The woman he raped was interview as saying she wanted it dropped so she did not have to go through this all again, but her testimony is already in.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I don't think Polanski's experiences are generalizable to most fugitives.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

For me it's a matter of pragmatism and practicality.

Roman Polanski is not a danger to other girls or society in general. The events happened over 30 years ago, and even the victim no longer wants justice. There are mitigating circumstances and the "people's" side of the judicial case are just as shady as his actions were.

You're not protecting the people by putting Polanski away. Hell, even if he was a danger you're making the danger greater by bringing him back to the country. You're not rehabilitating him. It's not about justice or anything like that...it really seems to be about nothing more than punishment? Maybe not even that. Right now it's about ego. The US judicial system has a bone to pick with Mr. Pulanski for getting away, and they want to make sure they "win." He's made a mockery of them, and they want to get him for it. (For the record, at this point, the US can never win. He's an old man who's going to die in the near future no matter what you do to him. Polanski's so far ahead in the score they could put a bullet in his brainpan and he'd still have come out on top. You might manage to score the goal to spoil his shutout, but he's already got the win in the bag.)

At what cost? Right now, this is just going to cost you tax money...not just for his incarceration, but for every man-hour they put into this legally. And there's no gain, there's no upside to it, nobody wins. The victim gets nothing out of it, the government gets nothing out of it, the people get nothing out of it. It's being done out of nothing more than spite at this point. It's not that I'd ever want to have Roman Polanski over for dinner...he can go to hell for all I care, i don't even like his movies. But if I lived in that area, I'd be pissed off about how much of my tax money was being utterly wasted by such juvenile dick-waving.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Damn Talya is trolling something fierce. I give you 8 of 10 for thoroughness.

It's a pretty straightforward issue. He admitted to plying a 13 year old with quaaludes and champagne then raping her. At best statutorily but more likely he forced himself on her. Copped a plea and when it looked like it would go bad he jetted off to France.

So yeah, they have a warrant out for his arrest and now hopefully they got him finally.

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

Way to avoid the point.

What's the purpose of putting him away? What's the upside here? What's the benefit to the American people? Merely "getting the guy" is not enough. If there is no tangible benefit equal to the cost involved, you're just dick-waving. The law becomes a bunch of idiots willing to hurt themselves and the people just to try to make sure they get the last word in.

(Even discounting the fact that he'll have very good lawyers and this could easily end up going his way.)

I don't care if he rots in jail, it's not my tax money. Just glad it's not my government throwing it away and making themselves look insecure about their authority by needing to prove a point to a 76 year old man.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

The purpose is to show that when you infringe on the rights of others you will be punished once convicted. No matter how much time has passed and no matter your attempts to evade.

We do this so people who are tempted to infringe on the rights of others don't think they can find a way to evade the punishment - thus continuing the disincentive to infringe on rights.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

That's not a purpose. That's circular. "The purpose of pursuing this long after it's practical to do so is so that we can pursue this long after it's practical to do so." And nobody gives a **** about "punishment," except as a deterrent.



And yet at this time, this case doesn't even do that. He did get away with it, and lived the best years of his life in luxury, wonderfully full and happy and meaningful life that has affected our society and culture in ways that nobody in that nobody involved in prosecuting him will ever come close to doing. Whatever you do to him now doesn't matter. It's only a step removed from the old practice of exhuming a corpse and "executing" it posthumously.

Which is not to say this is not a disincentive, because it really is. This is a disincentive to ever trust the authorities or legal system. This is a disincentive to ever tell the truth and confess. This is a disincentive to ever make a deal with the prosecution. This is a disincentive to serve your time, in fact, it's an encouragement to flee abroad. It worked for Polanski!

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

*squish*

Elmarnieh gave you the answer, but really it's one of those "too obvious to answer" questions it seems to me. You rape a girl you face your sentence, that's really all there is to it. You're not arguing anything about Polanski or who is dick waving or spending money and so on, you're arguing there should be no rule of law or justice system. Either that or the law should apply some sort of cost benefit analysis on each case, which would be one of the more absurd bureaucracies yet. I'm honestly not sure what exactly you're looking for other than to say the US should have thrown up it's hands and given up. If you honestly mean to argue that be my guest, but you're far beyond the scope of just this incident with your argument.

You do remind me of one thing though as I think somewhere in there you assert he's no longer a harm to anyone, it reminded me of this quote I saw by Polanski:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/micha ... girls-too/

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

I don't see why. Who cares if he's not going to get rehabilitated or isn't a threat? He hasn't made fools or a mockery of anyone, all he's done is hide like a coward for the last 31 years.

If someone pulls this kind of ****, they should spend the last years of their life miserable and in prison. Of course it costs tax money; that's just part of having a justice system.

There's definitely an upside and there's definitely a win. He's going to die in a miserable prison hospital at the end, instead of surrounded by fawning admirers. That's a definite win right there. It's sure as **** a better expediature of tax money than endless bailouts.

As for shady actions on the people's side, no, nothing shady was done to him. That's the way the system works.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's not what he argued. He didn't say anything about it being impractical to do so. That's your opinion. You can't use it to show his argument is circular.



He's nowhere near in that bad a shape, and no, he didn't live that easy life. He's been watching his step for 31 years to avoid extradition and yes, what's going to happen to him no DOES matter. He's going to end his life in a prison, and not just that, knowing that all his "contributions" didn't shield him in the end.



No it's not any of those things. Most people don't have Planski's resources and options. It's certainly no disincentive to deal with the prosecution. This isn't the first time a judge didn't accept a plea bargin and won't be the last, but it also doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the time judges do accept them. No one is seriously going to do what Polanski did unless they happen to have life circumstances similar to Polanski's.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

That's exactly what I'm saying, as soon as the victim came forward and asked for the charges to be dropped. That was the graceful way out right there...the opportunity to both save face and money and be done with this, without the burden of another trial and everything else.



Let's ignore that this is a sound-bite without context. The scary part is--from a purely psychological standpoint, he's right. While a thirteen year old is more woman than girl, and if you don't see exactly what he's talking about as true, then you don't understand men much. What do you think is behind the hairless, shaven sluts of the porn industry? Why do they put so much makeup on most of these 28 year old performers to ensure they don't look a day over 18, then put them in pigtails and catholic schoolgirl uniforms for the shoot? Why does every hollywood starlet start getting facelifts in her thirties and never stop? Whether they admit it or not, it's an animal thing. What's with the recent fascination grown men have with anime girls? The natural sweet spot for the human male libido is puberty through mid-twenties. You might learn otherwise through conformity, but those girls you had crushes on in high-school would still be sexy to you now. It's probably biological...younger is more fertile, more opportunities ahead for contributing to the gene pool. Notice how it isn't the same for women? A 14 year old girl can be hopelessly infatuated with a 45 year old school teacher, they actually let men age in hollywood and we still consider them sexy. Biological again, I guess. An older man is usually better able to provide, and usually just as able to father children.

So either you're all perverts and we women would be better off forsaking men and becoming lesbians, or we learn to excuse you. Nature made you what she made you. :p

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

So for you, vengeance is the be-all and end-all. (Nevermind that the wronged doesn't want it, society needs to take out its vengeance and punish wrongdoing!)

That's bullshit. That's just typical posturing. I've got no problem with "an eye for an eye," if such is practical and serves a valuable purpose in society (deterrent), but in this case it doesn't. Punishment is not an end to be strived for on its own.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

You can't drop the charges after he's already been convicted.



If you think most men see 13 year olds as "more woman than girl" then it's you who doesn't understand men much. He's not right; he's projecting his own desires and the popular culture "men are all horndogs for anything approaching puberty" onto everyone else.



I think you're confusing the appeal of young women in the older teenager to early-20s category with appeal of young teenagers. I hate to break it to you but no, most men do not find high school girls sexy, even the ones they had crushes on. They find them irritating, unless you're talking about very young men, or the Roman Polanskis of the world.



Or, none of that is actually the case.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Pretty much, although it's punishment, not vengeance. **** what the wronged wants. That doesn't matter after he;s already convicted.



Yes it is. That's how you maintain an effective justice system. People don't get to run away and evade punishment and eventually have it forgotten about because they're old or the victim doesn't care. That's just asking people to try to evade their fate.

AS for it being "bullshit" and "typical posturing" it's no more so than your position.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I'm not saying what most men see them as, I'm saying most 13 year olds ARE more woman than girl.
Ability to breed is the defining factor of adulthood in all organisms, not some nebulous human psychobabble about emotional or mental maturity. We're just animals. And while it's not the optimal time for a human female, even biologically, to begin doing so, it is possible in many/most cases. That makes them more woman than girl. Is it better for them if we protect them for a little bit longer? Probably. But that doesn't change that animal drive in the human psyche one little bit. Let's not pretend for a moment it's somehow unnatural or perverted. It's just something we don't allow (right now, anyway.)

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I'm with the bring him back and put him inside a minimum security clubhouse prison to serve out whatever his term should have been. The judge who originally tried the case was going to give him another two months. Do it, then its over.

No, it isn't okay to dismiss the incident because it was over 30 years ago. It was an alcohol and drug enhanced rape of a 13 year old girl. If Mus went out and did the same thing today I guarantee you those same Hollywood types would be calling for his castration.

Polanski drugged and raped a minor, a 13 year old girl. To let him off because he's managed to stay out of reach for a long time is and is a talented filmmaker is bullshit.

That just about the punishment talk, what are you thinking? People do not get to walk away just because they are 'better' than other people, or old and feeble. That is what all the talented and long time ago nonsense is all about. Is Polanski better than an average Joe who finally got caught after raping his 13 year old neighbor 30 years ago? Does he get more rights because he is a filmmaker?

I hope not.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

No it isn't. The mere ability to become pregnant doesn't define an adult; it typically defines an adolescent. In any case, just because we're "animals" doesn't mean that what applies to other animals applies to us. Emotional and mental maturity ARE important to adulthood in humans.

It pretty much is perverted in today's society. We don't need people to be cranking out the babies as soon as possible so we don't get wiped out any more. That means we can wait until people are old enough to really make decisions for themselves, as opposed to having them made by an older person with greater control and power and assuaging ourselves by handwaving away realities like emotional development.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Punishment for its own sake is the very definition of vengeance. And used as such, it's pretty barbaric. The only enlightened use of punishment is as a means to an end, not an end in itself. If such an end exists...whether it be closure for the victims or their family, a deterrent, or rehabilitation...then punishment has a purpose. Otherwise, it's just fancy male posturing and ego-stroking; the need ... the drive to win, to prove your superiority, peacocks spreading your tails so you can attract some nice young girls of your own. It'd be comical, if so many lives weren't ruined by the attitude.



You can stop seeking extradition and cancel any outstanding warrants easily enough.

As for the rest, you guys are enshrining the rule of law and justice system as if it's somehow some sacred, holy, good thing. This is an entirely alien way of thinking that I don't really understand.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

...and adolescents are more adult than child. Which is exactly what I just said, because a 13 year old is an adolescent. And like I said, we protect them, for good reason...but that goes against human nature, not with it. We're striving to push back and control natural male behavior. That doesn't mean we shouldn't protect them, but it's hypocritical to act all shocked and outraged when it happens anyway. Just make with the legalities if appropriate and practical and move on.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Ha well now it's in overdrive. I can tell you there is no biological imperative to drug and rape a 13 year old for normal healthy adults, whatever you may think. Twisting some women's desire to remain young and beautiful is no argument of course either. No, the reality is, obviously, that raping a 13 year old child is quite immoral and illegal and there is (again, of course) no one who would seriously dispute that. Well possibly NAMBLA and such organizations and individuals but they are the extreme, one hopes. So we are back to my "way to avoid the point" arent we. We can use the term contrarian if you want though!

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“Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general”. - Mark Rippetoe

honestly.... who cares. It was 30 years ago. Let some big burly guy drug and rape Roman Polanski and call it done.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut