The Glade 4.0

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“The person who tries to live alone will not succeed as a human being. His heart withers if it does not answer another heart. His mind shrinks away if he hears only the echoes of his own thoughts and finds no other inspiration.” - Pearl S. Buck

Your parents will not go with you to a counselor... That is ok. YOU SHOULD GO. They do not want you to go because you will hear from a neutral professional just how wrong they are and develop more resistance to them.

To be honest, there is no reason for you to go with them. They are not ready to change, and may never be ready to change.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

I have not yet given the letter to my parents. I called them last night because I said that I would after I saw my counselor on Monday to discuss with her bringing them into a session.

She thought it would likely not be a good idea to include my mother, and asked me if I would say all the things that I have told her that I want to tell my dad to him.

With my dad alone in a session with me, I absolutely can and will tell him everything I told Lydia (My counselor). He is a different person when he is not being puppetted by my mother.

Back to the call to my parents...I calmly requested of my father that he accompany me to a session. He declined to come alone and wants Mom to be included. Without pointing fingers, I restated that I need him to come with Oonagh and I alone first. He continued balking at this and went back to the "secret" that he wants to tell me. (In the interest of me not losing my cool or yelling) I explained to him that I was handing the phone to Oonagh who would speak on my behalf. She tried to make it clear to him that I am not well and he needs to do what I (we) ask to help me get better. He didn't quite want to hear any of this and kept asking Oonagh to put me back on the phone. I got back on the phone with him and repeated myself. He continued to defy me and I handed the phone back to Oonagh.

As she was talking to him, he must have been frustrated that he wasn't talking to me and handed the phone to my mother. Oonagh kept her calm and continued explaining that I needed and am getting help. My mother didn't want to talk to Oonagh and kept saying "Put Foamy back on the phone. He needs to talk to his father" Oonagh started in with, "If you really love your son, you'll help him get better by doing what he is asking (about counseling)."

I don't think she got past "love your son" and my mom promptly hung up. Now understand that my parents were upset that they weren't hearing from me, so said my brother. Here I was contacting them one of the scant few times over the past month, and instead of hearing me and working with me, they get frustrated and hang up the phone.

If they ever show Oonagh that they actually respect her as a professional woman, the wonderful wife of their first born son, and the mother of their first grandchild, my head would promptly explode. To them, she is none of the above, only a distraction to them, someone in the way of making things right with their son.

If they only knew how damaging to their case last night's antics were...

Honestly, I was waffling again. I didn't see Lydia's solution of cutting them off entirely as being what would fix it. I almost wanted to go to the table and talk it out thinking that they are starting to get the point, but their actions last night only strengthened my resolve to see this through to the bitter end.

You can be damn sure I am going to keep up with my counseling. I am starting to see Lydia's words come to life and reflect exactly what is going on. How she suggests this will eventually come to a conclusion, I am starting to believe.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Cutting them off entirely won't fix your problems with your parents. It will help you in some way or your counselor wouldn't be suggesting it.

As an aside, I am currently cut off from my father. While is is not at the advice of my counselor, he agrees that this is the correct course of action for me at this point in my life.

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"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me." - Alice R. Longworth

"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash Williams

I don't understand why you keep trying to reason with your shitty parents. LEAVE THEM BE and focus on just you. When you are in a better state, then you can try to fix/rebuild with them.

When the cabin depressurizes and the oxygen masks drop from their compartment always put your own mask on first before assisiting others. This isn't selfishness, it's for the greater good. Once you've gotten control of your own survival then you can worry about others... but if you're so busy worrying about taking care of everyone but yourself you're not only going to suffocate, you're also going to block the aisle when it's time to evacuate the plane.

Let your mother worry about her own oxygen (or not). Let your father handle his. Even when you've gotten your mask on and are breathing well check Oonagh and Sean before you even think about your parents.

/hugs

I remember going through a version of this not even a year ago. It hurts more than anything and I wish I could tell you how to make it better. The only thing I know of is to first make peace with yourself and decide that you can't have this in your life. That takes time. A lot of time. Then talk to your mother. Call her or sit down face to face, whichever, so long as it's you that's talking to her. List out your reasons. If she interrupts don't pause, don't acknowledge that she started talking, just keep going. Get everything out. Do the same with your father. And after telling them every reason you have, tell them they fix their part or you won't see them again. Let them know that you're willing to work through it (mention the therapist) but won't put up with things as is. Put the ball in their court and then hang up. It's hard to do and even harder to do calmly. But once you've said your piece and you've been honest and it isn't your decision to make anymore the weight lifted will be worth the pain it takes to get there.

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Holy crap, Phe.....

That pic is adorable.

Thanks!

EDIT- I had a huge brain fart for a second there...I looked at the pic and thought, "Wow, a cute redheaded devil/fairy. That almost looks like Oonagh...Oh and she's hugging a....

/lightbulb

I am so dumb.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Well, I ended up on the phone last night when my dad called the house to again insist that I make this all come to an end.

As I continued telling him that I needed him to come to counseling with me and he refused, he got frustrated and decided that he just didn't want to talk to me.

He handed the phone to my mother and she started in on me. I listened and kept insisting on one or both of them coming to counseling with me and Oonagh. She kept dodging that request.

Eventually, I levelled with her and got to the crux of why I have been treating her the way I have for so long. My statement to her was:

What followed wasn't at all what I expected. She listened...mostly. I rattled off as much as I can remember about what has hurt me with the way that they lived and how I was brought into the middle of their world of hurt.

I'll give her that she actually listened to what I was saying, but I could tell that her pride has the best of her and she stopped well short of apologizing for any wrongdoing.

I feel I have made a step in the right direction. I am going to continue seeing my counselor, and I am going to INSIST that my mother comes with me now. My past hurts are now in the open for my mother to see. She only sees them on the surface, and I really don't think she understands the magnitude of what it has done to me. Hopefully, it will be made clearer to her as I am not holding anything back from her anymore. My dad wanted me to bury the past, and I stubbornly refused. It is out there and hopefully we as a family will now address this.

I highly doubt that they want to come to counseling with me, and I don't know how it will proceed from here.

More to come, I'm sure.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

+1Foamy

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Congrats.

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Good luck. If nothing else based on your prior comments it seems like a big step to actually get your mom to listen to you.

I think she was just paying him lip-service, so she can avoid seeing the counselor.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

Sadly it's not possible to make someone else do something. All you can do is choose your own actions. You don't need their permission or cooperation to heal.

Sadly, I vaguely recall a story from years ago, about a mom who went with her daughter to a counseling session, urged to by her daughter and at the recommendation of the counselor. The bulk of the time was spent with the daughter screaming at the top of her lungs at mom with the counselor encouraging her to do so, catching the mom off-guard and completely blind-siding her. The relationship was damaged even further than it had been, as I recall.

Just something to think about.

I plan on making the next move.

I am continuing to see my counselor, but may not necessarily need my mother to come with me to a session.

I plan on setting up a 1 on 1 with my mother where will tell her all of my feelings from the past 2 decades. No finger pointing, only my feelings. I will tell her what I require from her to help me heal. Other than some admission of wrongdoing on her part and an apology, there is not much else she can do to start to heal our relationship.

That's part one. Part two will have her and Oonagh both involved.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Foamy:

I've debated whether or not to reply as I read this thread this morning. We don't know each other...heck...I don't know many people here. I'm just the chick that Uinan brought along so I'm like an outsider. -laughs- Your family turmoils though struck a chord with me, mostly because they resemble my own.

My story isn't of relevance so I'll spare you the boredom. I would like to, however, share with you some things I've learned along the way and hope maybe they will help you.

You said:



I can REALLY understand how this logic doesn't make a lot of sense, when you're in the middle of this...mess. I've been there. It goes against everything we've always been taught right? Communicate and work out your problems, don't shut people out.

I can tell you though, from my own personal experience, her advice is spot on.

You will not be able to help resolve anything with your parents until your own anger, frustration and mental health are resolved and you can't do that, while you're still trying to "fix" everything with them still in the picture.

My family "issues" are not with my parents, as they are both deceased, but with my 3 sisters. My councellor had been telling me the same thing yours had, to cut all ties with my sisters until I was in a place where I held no more anger or resentement. I admit, I was still several months before I took her advice, but finally did so a few days after Christmas last year.

Of course, having Uinan in my life brought a wealth of sanity into it, but finally taking that step so that I could fix ME without them involved, was the best thing I could have done. For the first time in my entire life, I am at peace with my family and it feels AMAZING. I've spent the last 10 months, fixing me, without stressing, fighting or getting frustrated at them.

Anyway...I've been there Foamy, all be it in a slightly different scenario, and I hope that you'll soon consider the wise advice of your councellor. You may not be able to see now how cutting them off entirely will fix this, but I promise you it will.

My best to you during this difficult time.

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Well, it's finally all out there. I have had 3 talks with my mother that was an airing out of feelings. There was no yelling, I just finally got it all out there. She listened, but continues to stop short of accepting blame. She refuses to admit that she is ever wrong without attaching something else to it..."Yes, I did that, but I was hurt by your father." Reasons, not culpability.

That being said. I lifted a huge weight off of my shoulders in doing this finally and hoped that I could pass along this strength to just accept her and her quirks to Oonagh.

Unfortunately, this made it worse for Oonagh. My mom said that she wanted to talk to her, but Oonagh just wasn't ready. She was convinced (with good reason) that my mother would never apologize for the hurtful words she said last year when Oonagh's brother died.

Anyway, I brought the baby over to my mother's over the weekend as a token of things hopefully becoming better. This was the first physical contact I was to have with her in close to 2 months. It was supposed to be drop off and leave, as Oonagh and I planned on going out for the day before Elmo's bonfire. It turned into a 3 hour conversation, then once I got home, a fight for the rest of the day with Oonagh, which ended up spilling over into this week. Our counselling session on Tuesday helped for a little, but we were right back to the strife shortly after.

I now was hoping things could get better with my mother, but knowing Oonagh wasn't ready to share with her placed me squarely in the middle. I knew I had to choose my wife and son, but no longer knew how to keep my parents at bay while Oonagh continued getting the help she needed to eventually deal with my mother.

That culminated last night. First, my mother called me to find out when I might bring the baby by for her to watch him again. I did my best to say I would when I was ready, and she sensing something still a little off, probed for more information. I let on that Oonagh needs more time before being ready to talk to her, and this set her off. We talked (yelled) for about a half hour before I decided to end the conversation.

Fast forward to later that evening, I get a call from my dad now. Once again, he is telling me things that I just am not capable of doing. He actually told me to "Get your wife under control." Like I can tell her to just shut off her feelings to make things better for him. I insisted that it would be best for Mom, Oonagh and myself to talk about this in front of our conselor and he stubbornly resisted this request. This man, who has had the worst marriage I have ever witnessed is also now giving me pointers on how this all could have been avoided. Years ago, when I met Oonagh, I was in a horrible place with my mother. All my hurt, all of my pain, the fights...etc, I shared with her as a loving (eventually to be married couple) would do. My dad faulted me saying "what happened in this house should have stayed here. You should have never told Oonagh what went on in our lives."

The reason this has been important is because this is what shaped Oonagh's opinions of the rotten person my mom has been to me over the years.

Anyway, to make a ridiculously long story short, my dad caused me to almost lose my mind and I nearly broke the phone I was talking on, the baby's walker (He wasn't in it or near it), and my foot. Never have I felt such rage inside me.

After this tirade, Oonagh had had it. She called them back and cursed them for doing this to us and never to bother with us again unless they wanted to talk to us in counseling, then she hung up the phone. (This was to my dad)

My mom calls back shortly after and Oonagh takes the call. What happened over the next hour may be nothing short of a miracle. Oonagh maintained her calm in the face of my mothers constant blathering. She got it all out to her, and just about made my mom "admit" to the hurtful words after her brother died.

They reached an accord. There is understanding. Both of them know now what has been keeping them apart and at odds. My mom may never change to what we would accept as normal, but there seems to be understanding now. As soon as Oonagh got off the phone with her and wanted to tell me about what she said and what she did to get my mother to admit to what she has said, I shushed her and just started to cry.

My world has now changed. We will be starting over. That is about the best way I think I can say it.

A world of hurt has been lifted off of my shoulders and I think it can now start to heal. I never, in my lifetime expected this to ever get better, but this may be the beginning.

I hope Oonagh and I have the strength and resolve to let the past go now that we have opened ourselves up and received, what we feel, is the best admission of guilt on my mother's part.

I have seen a side of my mother that has been clouded by my father for many years. He is a weak man who doesn't know how to stand up to a challenge. I see that now. He had told me to bottle up my (and Oonagh's) feelings for too many years in the interest of keeping the peace and it led up to this. I resent him now for this, but I am putting it behind me. What my mother had told me about their past jives with how he has always handled me. Never facing the problem, just turning it away and pretending it never happened.

Thank you all for your kind words and your support. It has meant a lot to me and has given me the strength to believe that what I was doing was right.

<--------is hopeful for the future now. We will see.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.

*hugs* To all of you, and *cheers* to hope!

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I suppose this is better than purging by fire - if it works.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

I hope it works Foamy. I sincerely do.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Foamy, best of luck to you and yours.


Not as warm, though.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

It is a long road. Just keep taking one step after another. You're doing well.

Though I don't recommend it as a formula for continued happiness, there is one thing to remember about fighting with your wife. Making up is the best part.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

It has been around a year since this disastrous time in my life and I decided to reread what I had posted that fateful year ago.

I have moved past ever the hope of ever having caring parents or caring for my parents. They are two people who are convenient babysitters for Oonagh and I.

They are nothing special to me and they never will be. I believe when my father dies (of the 4 grandparents, I fully expect him to be the first) there will be additional strife. More anger and pent up BS will come to the surface. We will have to see.

Regardless, they are just a couple of people to me now. I have, as my counselor had suggested, grieved for the loss of the parents that I hoped for and moved on. I can almost look my mother in the eye when I speak to her. I have lost all caring for my father. He has damaged our relationship deeper than he will ever know and I care not to try and fix it. He is a soulless husk who seems to live to please my mother anymore; no longer living for himself. He is a hypocritical man who I will never know respect for again.

It's not what I hoped for, but at least Oonagh and myself have peace. Discussions about my mother between the two of us are becoming fewer and the ones that we do have do not seem to lead to fights/arguments any longer.

My Family, (Myself, Oonagh and the little peanut), is mostly at peace. I love my wife and son dearly and that's all that matters to me. I have done what I can that sorrowful year ago to try and amend things. I have tried and I was stronger that I was EVER able to be in my life. I owe that strength to my wife, my son, my counselor and the many of you here who had kind, supportive words for me. I wasn't lying when I said I was crying as I typed several of those posts. It was not a good time at all, but I know that I did what I could. I tried and they failed me.

For what it's worth, they are back in Sean's life. They care for him and I know no harm will befall him in their care. But for my purposes, my mother and father are all but dead to me.

Thank you all for all the support and kind words. They did mean the world to me and I wanted to let you all know they were not forgotten.

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This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays.