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Müs
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:55 pm 
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http://www.timschraeder.com/2010/06/30/ ... gay-pride/
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A couple of months ago I interviewed Nathan Albert from the Marin Foundation about Mercy, Justice, and the GLBT Community. It generated some interesting dialogue around a tough issue… how does the Church communicate God’s love to the gay community?

This past weekend Chicago, along with many other US cities, celebrated Gay Pride with a parade. As a part of the weekend, Nathan and a group of over 30 Christians from various Chicago churches went to demonstrate at the Gay Pride Parade with the Marin Foundation.

Their demonstration was much different, though.

While the most vocal “Christian” presence at the parade was in the form of protesters with “God Hates Fags” signs, Nathan and a team from the Marin Foundation took a different approach… they chose to apologize.

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Aizle
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:15 pm 
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That is one of the coolest things I've read in a long long time.

Thanks for posting.
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Lenas
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Very heartwarming.
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Rynar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Very heartwarming.


Indeed.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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Dash
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I'm conflicted here. I like that there was reconciliation. I like that there was outreach and hugs not drugs. And that people can get beyond hating each other but I'm not sure I understand specifically what they are saying sorry for. Is it the lack of "communicating God's love to the gay community"?

This line in particular struck me as true: "I think Jesus would have hugged him too."

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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:02 pm 
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I haven't any problem with apologizing for things I've done personally, but I feel it's inappropriate to apologize for things others have done.

Seems to lack the appropriate perspective.

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Slythe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
I haven't any problem with apologizing for things I've done personally, but I feel it's inappropriate to apologize for things others have done.

Seems to lack the appropriate perspective.


^ This...like the Congress apologizing for slavery.
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Rynar
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Slightly different, since it was an event he coordinated, if I am reading this correctly.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 
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Aizle
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Slythe wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
I haven't any problem with apologizing for things I've done personally, but I feel it's inappropriate to apologize for things others have done.

Seems to lack the appropriate perspective.


^ This...like the Congress apologizing for slavery.


When you are part of an organization, you inherit the tradition of that organization. Sometimes that tradition has some spots on it, when you apologize on behalf of that organization you're making public recognition that there were mistakes made in the past and you're trying to move past them. An apology costs nothing and as is patently shown here can make a HUGE difference for some people.
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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:39 pm 
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The example:

"Everybody, I apologize for Aizle's opinion, he is a product of another environment and as we all know, his attitude is to be discouraged. As a member of the Glade, I feel it's necessary to speak out about this".

... is meaningless and frankly insulting to everybody concerned, no matter how much of a difference it may have on others. You haven't apologized, all that's happened is I've treated you like crap and patronized those folks I was "apologizing" to.

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Dash
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Slythe wrote:
^ This...like the Congress apologizing for slavery.


That's a good example. I was thinking of the "sorry" campaign after Bush got re-elected. It's just weak to say you're sorry for someone else's actions. There's no personal responsibility and this one is especially vague. It comes off as more self aggrandizing than repentant.

Sorry if I'm crapping all over this story, it is a good read and it was nice to see people getting along.

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Wwen
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Slythe wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
I haven't any problem with apologizing for things I've done personally, but I feel it's inappropriate to apologize for things others have done.

Seems to lack the appropriate perspective.


^ This...like the Congress apologizing for slavery.


Makes sense, it is more heart warming though. Unlike the cold calculated reason for congress to apologize for anything. And at least hating fags exists right now, unlike institutionalized slavery.

I think "Sorry" will be Obama's campaign for his 2nd term. "I'm sorry guys. I 'hope' you forgive me!"

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Aizle
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:52 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
The example:

"Everybody, I apologize for Aizle's opinion, he is a product of another environment and as we all know, his attitude is to be discouraged. As a member of the Glade, I feel it's necessary to speak out about this".

... is meaningless and frankly insulting to everybody concerned, no matter how much of a difference it may have on others. You haven't apologized, all that's happened is I've treated you like crap and patronized those folks I was "apologizing" to.


Bad example, you're attempting to apologize for the behavior of one individual (which should come from that person). They are talking about the larger organization. Now there is some validity to the fact that they are probably still in the minority of Christians who believe as they do and the majority probably don't think they've acted poorly towards the Gay community. So at some level they probably can't really speak for Christianity as a whole.
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Lenas
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Taskiss wrote:
The example:

"Everybody, I apologize for Aizle's opinion, he is a product of another environment and as we all know, his attitude is to be discouraged. As a member of the Glade, I feel it's necessary to speak out about this".

... is meaningless and frankly insulting to everybody concerned, no matter how much of a difference it may have on others. You haven't apologized, all that's happened is I've treated you like crap and patronized those folks I was "apologizing" to.


We already do that, man. When new people come to the Glade, we all have to say, "Sorry. Please ignore that guy. We're not all like him."
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Taskiss
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
The example:

"Everybody, I apologize for Aizle's opinion, he is a product of another environment and as we all know, his attitude is to be discouraged. As a member of the Glade, I feel it's necessary to speak out about this".

... is meaningless and frankly insulting to everybody concerned, no matter how much of a difference it may have on others. You haven't apologized, all that's happened is I've treated you like crap and patronized those folks I was "apologizing" to.


Bad example, you're attempting to apologize for the behavior of one individual (which should come from that person). They are talking about the larger organization. Now there is some validity to the fact that they are probably still in the minority of Christians who believe as they do and the majority probably don't think they've acted poorly towards the Gay community. So at some level they probably can't really speak for Christianity as a whole.
The example was in support of my opinion that an apology from anyone other than the person than it should be from, lacks perspective. Unless it's an asshat religious zealot giving the apology, the perspective is totally off.

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Monte
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:19 am 
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This was very cool.

Sometimes, one of my fellow White Scarves (it's a high ranking Order in the SCA for Rapier combat) does something completely out of line, and it gets back to me. I feel an obligation to apologize on behalf of the Order and I endeavor to make amends.

I feel a shared responsibility.

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Wwen
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:35 am 
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I dunno, I can see it when I'm part of an "order." But I'm not part of an order of straight guys. I can't apologize on behalf of millions of people that just hate gay people. I can't and I don't feel responsible to. I might apologize for a friend I was with. But not with the "god hates fags" crowd. I'm not with them...

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Diamondeye
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:48 am 
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It's cool to see them supporting the acceptance of gay people. It's not cool to see them apologizing for people that don't. What they should be doing is simply saying "We don't agree with these people; we think they are wrong about our faith, and here is why."

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FarSky
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:00 am 
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I'm pretty sure that's the intent, but signs only have so much real estate. "I'm sorry" gets the point across, and is much easier to read than a long, involved statement enumerating the ways in which their interpretation of the faith differs from others' interpretations of the faith, etc.
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Diamondeye
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:21 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's the intent, but signs only have so much real estate. "I'm sorry" gets the point across, and is much easier to read than a long, involved statement enumerating the ways in which their interpretation of the faith differs from others' interpretations of the faith, etc.


I wasn't thinking of any long involved statements.

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Wwen
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:41 pm 
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"Love a gay today!"

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