The Glade 4.0

Nothing teaches timing better than fencing. It's like playing chess at mach 3. But yeah, if armed combat doesn't appeal to you, you probably won't dig fencing. Long arms are a minor advantage.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I'll be happy to take ya down to the ground Kirra

I don't doubt that. Given the mechanics of armed combat with long reach weapons, the speed that one is able to commit a lethal or very damaging strike with relatively little physical exertion certainly emphasizes that timing is not only important, but essential. It's just not consistent to rely only on ones reflexes and wits.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

[youtube]CyiIvrPW4BY[/youtube]

Here is a clip of Roy Dean. He is a BB in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, a shodan in Kodokan Judo, Aikikai Aikido, Itto-Ryu Batto Jutsu (Iaido), and sandan in Seibukan Jujutsu. He is a very intelligent martial artist, his experience gives him quite an interesting perspective in martial arts.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

A good fencer relies on a lot more than reflex and wits. It's about leverage, distance - it's a whole lot of things.

I loved that film, by the way. Makes me pine to find a decent instructor. I don't like how often JJ tends to leave the ground (the big leaping leg locks around the head, for example). Not that I don't see the value, I just prefer to remain on my feet if I can help it.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

Don't underestimate the short girl Riov :p. I have a great self preservation technique

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Dream as if you'll live forever...
...Live as if you'll die tomorrow

Vivere Senza Rimpianti

That is because you are tall and long. Your strengths are naturally on your feet, because that is where your natural advantages lie. JJ and, BJJ specifically, were designed for smaller combatants who's best advantages are to take you off your feet, and bring you to the ground where you no longer have your length as an advantage.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

No, that was Quinton McHale, close though.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yes, but I would expect because of the way fencing is, that anticipation plays a critical role in augmenting ones wits and reflexes just because the combat is so much faster than any type of empty handed system.

The "flying" submissions as they are called are not really a core technique because they are very low percentage but if the opportunity is there, they can be good attacks simply because they are so unexpected. The downside is the level of commitment is very high, so if they fail, you will end up in a worse spot, but not necessarily. A failed flying triangle or armlock probably results in one being in full or half-guard position which is easy enough to get to mount from. Believe it or not, the mechanics of them use the opponent's base as a structure to help elevate oneself, so one doesn't really require any sort of special or even above-average physical gifts to execute such a submission.

Mostly, I think Roy picked them because they are one of the fastest executed techniques and therefore look spectacular when shot at 300 FPS with 22 FPS playback. I think this video shows better typically how BJJ would play out. Albeit, this is in a competition setting and there are some arguments and rifts within the community as to self-defense vs. sport, I maintain that the nature of combat, the principles and core strategy means they aren't actually significantly different. But that's another debate.

[youtube]KRldM4fRqaY[/youtube]

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

I'm not certain bjj "favors" smaller players, simply that it is less dependent on size. Some moves are still much easier for a big guy vs. a small guy. (Good luck landing a decent triangle on a guy with big shoulders if you're 5'2")

Hell, I get destroyed by the 300 lb guy I roll with, even though I'm probably technically better. But I can't move that much mass most the time.

What I don't like about the ground game is that it tends to favor strength and all the other attributes I have get thrown out the window.

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Ron Paul 2012

Strength is a FACTOR, but the ground game feels MORE about skill & technique than standup to me. Anyone can land a lucky blow in standup, but a high end wrestler/bjj/whatever makes such a huge difference just in their percentages.

Strength can augment a good gameplan on the ground. One thing I dislike about the Gracie theory is that the theory they use around qualifying what techniques and systematical approach to achieve successful self-defense and prowess on the ground is based around, street applicability (punch proof techniques), energy efficiency and natural body movements. That's fine, but there isn't some sort of universal standard where techniques require too great of physical attributes where it makes them unacceptable. I think that is why Relson dislikes Bravo's 10PJJ rubber guard system so much, because it requires good hip flexibility. However, it also nullifies a strong attacker's ability to achieve and maintain good posture to land punches from inside the guard better than any other formalized guard system that is currently practiced.

The Gracie system is very versatile and draws on fundamentally sound and empirically proven principles. I just think that like any pre-cast mold, it requires individual time and machining for the details to come out right.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

I dunno I guess I'd rather just punch someones lights out than hug them to death.


I think UFC MMA is boring because it's a cage and the fighters train for strength and lack speed and flexibility and since it's a cage a lot of the fights end up on the ground. I'd rather be fast and agile on my feet.

Ground fighting vs. more than 1 attacker? Forget about it.

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Ron Paul 2012

the general statistic they give (not that I believe it) is that 60-80% of street fights end up going to the ground.

And dont think of it as hugging them to death--think of it as breaking limbs, torquing joints, depriving the brain of oxygen and tearing tendons if you really must think of it in terms of the violence you're doing.

No one is suggesting you only train in one martial art. Nor are we saying this-is-better-than-that. We're just stating that the ground techniques are effective too.

I frequently spar an 18 yr old 3rd degree black belt in tkd. he's blazing fast and I can't really tag him--he destroys me in the standup, but if I can wade in through his outer defense and take the fight to the ground, I can actually fight to a standstill or even gain the advantage.

yeah, I agree, styles don't matter...I'm just making fun of UFC is all



and I think a lot less fights would go to the ground if someone was a trained fighter


But yeah, I do agree it's good to train in more than 1 "style", and BJJ is an excellent ground fighting style.


I guess I'd rather watch a good Boxing match than a UFC fight most of the time. When the fight goes to the ground, it's so boring. Boxing and stand up fighting in general is much more interesting (and useful) to me.

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Ron Paul 2012

I just think the ground game is so much more technical and tactical than the standup.

The problem with that approach to self defense is it requires extraordinary physical gifts in order for it to be consistently reliable. Not only that, but those gifts must be trained until they are extraordinary sharp. For example, my favorite guy to watch in the cage is Jose Aldo Jr. He's a dynamo from Brazil, young kid who is only 23. His background he started as a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu player and worked his way to black belt under Andre Pederneiras in the vaunted Nova Uniao camp, the same one where BJ Penn earned his black belt. He is a muay thai machine and his natural gifts are just a sight to behold. However, I always am aware that he may have to adjust his game as he ages and loses some of that blazing speed and power.

If you really think he lacks speed, just take a look:

[youtube]WpKfUviYSjU[/youtube]

The level of talent he brings to a relatively new sport is definitely next generation. Physical gifts like that are truly one in a million or rarer, and that he honed them to that degree of was downright inconceivable only a few years back. @ 1:33 he double fly knee's Cub Swanson, a fight that took him 8 seconds to get stopped. His quickness is that insane, he can literally throw both knees before landing.

As far as MMA, I don't really like it as much as older Vale Tudo and even Pride just because of the excessive number of rules being introduced.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

But could he handle the mysterious art of Capoeira? I think not!

It's dance-fighting!!!1!!!

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

My experience meshes with that statistic. However, if there is more than one attacker, the last place on earth you want to be is the ground.

Real self defense is more about heart rate and what the body can do at different levels of elevated stress. At a certain point, complicated techniques are basically impossible. Fight or flight engages gross body movements, and it's pretty much impossible to train that instinct away. It's why real brawls look so messy to us. When you train in martial arts, learning to control your breathing and your heart rate are absolutely essential. Once you hit a certain stage, kiss all that technical expertise goodbye.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I would point out that the vast majority of techniques learned as a white belt are self-defense escapes from many different standing clinch positions, as well as variations which are essentially Judo techniques which would fall under the categorization of nage waza. This makes sense, since Helio Gracie is only once removed from Jigoro Kano through Mitsuyo Maeda. There are a number of clinch techniques that many people fail to realize exist because the implementation of BJJ in MMA results in the ne-waza aspect being the most important. However, I believe that the techniques learned make practitioners of this style prepared on how to quickly get off the ground and to control where the situation goes, in terms of clinch or ground.

Additionally, another reason (I'm sure I have stated this) that elevated intensities of randori are a critical training tool, is that they allow you to execute the techniques necessary to successfully implement the strategy theorized by the Gracies in situations of escalating duress.

But generally, I do agree. Jon Goss, the local Aikidoka, said one of the most prescient things I've ever heard about martial arts and self defense and it had nothing to do with physical technique. It was response of one of the students (maybe even Senpai?) accidentally failing to yield a path to Sensei to another student for demonstration because he was not paying attention:



That's not word for word, but it's very close, and that last part stuck in my mind especially. After thinking about it, everything started to make a lot of sense. It was so simple, yet so elegant in how well it put things into perspective. I would say it was one of the most prescient things I've ever heard anyone say in general, regarding any topic.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones