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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:48 am 
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He must have experienced a lot of racism when he was younger.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Man, you want Van Damme H8, go to the Steven Seagal Unofficial Forums site. It's hilarious. That being said, I enjoy some of his movies.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:21 pm 
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I think "Hard to Kill" was the only Seagal film I've actually seen. I really enjoyed the movie! I was 5.

The only other thing I have to go off of besides knowing Aikido are the Mad TV parodies of Seagal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:26 pm 
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Seagal has made so many movies it's kind of sad. I figured last month it's probably a 1.5 movie/rack ratio at the local Family Video store. In other words, on average, he's got at least a movie per 3x5 of shelf real estate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:39 pm 
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I always found it funny how a lot of his movies had three words in it. He had a string of movies that were like "Out For Justice", "Hard To Kill", "Marked For Death".

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:45 pm 
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"On Deadly Ground"

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Un Der Siege.

/whistles

Maybe it's just a three-syllable thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Jet Li is extremely fast and extremely competent. Chuck Norris has plenty of professional fighting experience. Ken Shamrock was good for his day in the MMA world, but that particular mode of "combat" is a bit like the WWE these days. Honestly, the only match-up I'd like to see is Bruce Lee and Jet Li, and that's only to see who is actually faster.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:29 am 
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That would be a matchup worth watching. It would be a close fight.

I'd like to see that, and vs Ali as well. I don't think Ali was nearly as fast as Bruce or Jet, though.



I know a lot of people have probably already seen this...but I'm linking it for those who haven't:

http://www.guba.com/watch/3000036043/Br ... -Interview

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:49 am 
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Brandon Lee was bloody fast, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:03 am 
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Monte wrote:
Brandon Lee was bloody fast, too.
Hence the desire to see who was/is actually faster ...

/NapoleonDynamite

L2read, n00b!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:14 am 
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Haha...

chicks dig a guy with nunchuck skills!

that's why I vote bruce lee :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:23 am 
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Best part of this thread are the youtube journeys it's inspired.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Nevandal wrote:
I know a lot of people have probably already seen this...but I'm linking it for those who haven't:

http://www.guba.com/watch/3000036043/Br ... -Interview



Never have I seen that. Great interview.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Yeah, for sure. Dude has a lot to say about everything, but nobody will listen. You can tell how frustrated he is with the interviewer. I can't tell if the interviewer is being rude on purpose or he just doesn't understand. What kills me is at the end, when Bruce suggests that all races are equal and stuff, the guy is like "OKAY! GOTTA GO!"


....


and now he's dead.


pisses me off

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Incoming massive wall of text.

Spoiler:
Martial Arts are simply (at a minimum) a system of techniques that when employed a practitioner can use to defeat an opponent. That's it. Any augmented requirements such as Budo, for instance, simply came about because they conditioned practitioners mentally in a way that made them more combat effective. Anything that is superfluous in that it cannot implicitly or explicitly be reasoned why its inclusion helps the martial art achieve this goal has nothing to do with the art itself. And of course, such reasoning is relative to the individual.

How effective a martial art is, or how well it solves the dilemma proposed to all martial arts, greatly depends on the context in which it is employed. "Armed" combat, be it any of the (probably) thousands of style of swordsmanship, hybrid styles, empty hand styles, marksmanship, disarmament styles etc. are all "martial arts". Just as important is the practitioner himself. He is inseparable from the art.

Of course, one must define "defeat" in the context of combat. Aikido proposes that to "defeat" an opponent, one must simply preserve oneself from injury in any number of scenarios. Boxing proposes the opponent will suffer defeat by winning a contrived bout by a judges' decision or knockout within a certain ruleset and so fourth. We are told there are "No rules, basically", in an "open arena". Can weapons be brought in by our celebrities? What about friends? You might call these questions trivial and sophomoric in the sense that the answers should be "obvious", but it doesn't mean that one can assume the answers to them to be a certain way.

And the competitors themselves must be able to have sufficient responses to the answers of these questions. It is one of the reasons why early MMA was so inconsistent and chaotic: most of the martial artists that competed never even considered that their system might be presented with questions that were outside of the design of the system, let alone have answers for those questions. Even though modern MMA has become so mainstream that there are now a bunch of templates in which most athletes fall, some still find room within the ruleset to put together questions none have a notion of how to answer it when the time comes. Jon Jones is a 6'4" light heavyweight with an 84" reach and genetically gifted in a way (his brother, Arthur, played football at Syracuse and was selected 5th round by the Ravens as a DT, and his other brother, Chandler, is a DE @ Syracuse) not seen before in professional MMA promotions. Unorthodox striking techniques and unmatched greco-roman skills give him the ability to purpose such questions, despite the idea that all such questions within the context of the Unified MMA ruleset have been asked and answered. BTW, his next fight is free on Sunday, on VS...

No system can answer all possible questions, because that would, by definition, make it to be unbeatable. Even if the system of techniques could theoretically be used to obtain victory in any circumstance, the case cannot be made once the human is considered. This is more evidence that the practitioner and his art are inseparable. Of course this notion makes sense when rationalized: a system of techniques that cannot be physically implemented is useless. But not all practitioners are equal. This is where I reject many of the notions purported by the Gracie family, because they are too absolute in nature. Or, to put it another way, in response to the well known Gracie saying that "90% of fights go to the ground, whether by accident or design", Shawn Tompkins once said "That may be true, but it is my understanding that nearly 100% of fights begin standing."

Anyway, as that applies to this discussion, I find these kinds of arguments to be rather fantastical. Which isn't to say there's no use for such arguments. This is the Entertainment section, after all.


However, there's nothing particularly inspired about hugging onto the nuts of a specific technician, bashing a certain style or trash talking any sort of specific competition. Claiming a particular system is more "real" or that others are less genuine is an exercise in futility and self-gratification. Nothing is real until tested and the question is asked, and even then, that answer only applies in that context. Citing specific attributes such as speed or strength, especially when such observations are painfully erroneous only compounds the silliness of such notions.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:42 pm 
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I agree in concept, but I must say I have encountered poorly constructed arts in my time, and some arts *can* be objectively judged on several levels. I am thinking mostly of sword arts at the moment, but it applies to empty hand arts as well. The body only moves so many ways, our anatomy is *more or less* similar. And no one can defy the laws of physics, distance, and time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Monte wrote:
I agree in concept, but I must say I have encountered poorly constructed arts in my time, and some arts *can* be objectively judged on several levels. I am thinking mostly of sword arts at the moment, but it applies to empty hand arts as well. The body only moves so many ways, our anatomy is *more or less* similar. And no one can defy the laws of physics, distance, and time.


Well, my point isn't necessarily constrained by the limitations of physical technique. Martial arts are all designed for a specific purpose. To critique one system for being poor at achieving something the system wasn't designed for was really what I was getting at.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:44 am 
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The way I look at the different martial art styles is...to me, each style represents someones idea of what works for them in a fight. So the best thing to do is choose a style that most closely represents your natural way of fighting, and then do your own thing from there, because everyone is different. I've never been into wrestling, ground and pound, and grappling much...but from what I can tell, Bruce Lee is the only stand up fighter that not only kicks ***, but explains exactly why his methods work in a way that I can understand completely. The man had a library of over 2,000 books, and was an amazing philosopher and teacher, and stressed the importance of physical fitness. One of his quotes goes something like "Martial Art is not about technique, but rather a successful combination of physicality and spirituality". The great thing about him is that he tells us how plain and simple his methods are, and then he just does it, and despite everyone's disbelief, he wins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_fu_%28term%29

Quote:
Kung fu or gongfu or gung fu (功夫, Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term often used by the west to refer to Chinese martial arts.[1] Its original meaning is somewhat different, referring to one's expertise in any skill achieved through hard work and practice, not necessarily martial. The Chinese literal equivalent of "Chinese martial art" would be 中國武術 zhōngguó wǔshù.[2]


So basically with lots of hard work, practice, and proper applications of simple concepts and fundamentals, is why Bruce Lee was one of the best.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:33 am 
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At least when it comes to swordplay, I have found great personal value in studying an existing style thoroughly, putting it into practice with attention to orthodoxy (as we understand it, it's tricky with 400 year old sword arts), and eventually drawing from that practice the key elements of the science behind it. Over time, it gives me a lot more in the way of cards to play against an opponent.

"I find Thibault cancels out Capo Ferro!"

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I think another "secret ingredient" of successful martial artists is that they're also amazing psychologists, which lets them predict their opponents actions at the smallest degree. Don't believe me? Look up Microexpressions.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:21 am 
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Nevandal wrote:
I think another "secret ingredient" of successful martial artists is that they're also amazing psychologists, which lets them predict their opponents actions at the smallest degree. Don't believe me? Look up Microexpressions.



This is definitely true. At its heart, all combat is the practice of deception (with apologies to Sun Tzu.) The ability to fight well is obviously physical, but it cannot be separated from the psychological aspects. This is a combination of predicting what one's opponent will do, and also fooling your opponent into failing to predict your actions. If one can draw out an attack that misses, causing your opponent to overextend themselves, they are open to your attack. Conversely, if your opponent believes he should block high when you attack low, you have succeeded. Traditional psychology? Maybe not. But a successful combatant must be effective at predicting their opponent, as well as fooling their opponent--like almost every other competitive activity we ever engage in.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:41 am 
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Talya wrote:
Nevandal wrote:
I think another "secret ingredient" of successful martial artists is that they're also amazing psychologists, which lets them predict their opponents actions at the smallest degree. Don't believe me? Look up Microexpressions.



This is definitely true. At its heart, all combat is the practice of deception (with apologies to Sun Tzu.) The ability to fight well is obviously physical, but it cannot be separated from the psychological aspects. This is a combination of predicting what one's opponent will do, and also fooling your opponent into failing to predict your actions. If one can draw out an attack that misses, causing your opponent to overextend themselves, they are open to your attack. Conversely, if your opponent believes he should block high when you attack low, you have succeeded. Traditional psychology? Maybe not. But a successful combatant must be effective at predicting their opponent, as well as fooling their opponent--like almost every other competitive activity we ever engage in.



This is why I'm kind of interested in fencing (aside from the fact that swordplay is fun). It seems like a lot of the techniques employed are based on this concept. You can really see this in the way bruce lee fights...his stance when kicking, and non telegraphic moves. It's harder to see in actual fencing matches because they start the fight, and 2 seconds later the buzzer goes off and it's over. Too many stupid rules. Plus, who wants to wear that goofy mask, it just blocks your vision and it's too damn sweaty in there.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:02 pm 
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The first key, in my experience, is dedication. If you lack the dedication to practice your art intensely, and with a serious mind, you will not succeed, and your art will fail.

The trick isn't to fool your opponent into blocking high when you strike low. The goal is to force your opponent to block high, and in that time, strike low. Limiting your opponent's options and forcing them to make a lethal mistake does not require psychological trickery. It requires good technique, applied in tempo and with vigor.

Imagine two swordsmen squared off. On swordman points his blade in the general direction of his opponent's throat, on guard. The other, standing at a distance where his opponent cannot yet hit him, adopts a posture and guard that closes his opponent's line of attack, and then steps into a distance where he can strike. He has constrained his opponent.

If the opponent strikes along the vector that is already closed to him, he will be killed as his opponent strikes him in the same moment that he himself strikes. And if he takes the time to evade this line, the opponent will strike him anyway.

And so he has two choices. Strike and die, or withdraw to gain some time to set up a new equation.

Psychology, in my opinion, comes into play when you have to actually pull the trigger and strike. Also, in dealing with and controlling adrenaline and fear, in keeping a cool head, and in forcing your will upon your opponent.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:17 am 
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I still think if you're talking a pound for pound fighter, based on some discipline with rules and judges that's one thing. Or if you're saying matched up against people roughly the same size. Simply "who would win" though is something else.

I cant help but think if a guy 5'7 and 135 lbs stepped into the ring with say, Muhammad Ali at 6'3 215.. he'd get crushed.

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