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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:58 pm 
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He's still trying to stir things up, getting us to say we don't hate on Islam, which I doubt many of us do. Radical Extremists that use the Islamic face as a mask or a shield for their death cult perhaps, but not mainstream Islam. If he can troll up some more anger at him and his potshots he can claim some kind of a victory. Just move on, pray for him to come to realize trolling is just a waste of everyone's time.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:04 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
He's still trying to stir things up, getting us to say we don't hate on Islam, which I doubt many of us do. Radical Extremists that use the Islamic face as a mask or a shield for their death cult perhaps, but not mainstream Islam. If he can troll up some more anger at him and his potshots he can claim some kind of a victory. Just move on, pray for him to come to realize trolling is just a waste of everyone's time.


I don't think that's it. I think he just can't accept that a bunch of conservatives could actually be suspicious for any reason other than hating Islam. He just can't see how anyone could possibly think these muslims have anything but the purest motives unless they were bigots. He just takes what they say at face value and regards even suspicion of them as religious hatred.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Perhaps, I doubt it.

I feel he is trolling at this point. I almost wish you were right, but he is too bright in general to fall for that stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:27 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Perhaps, I doubt it.

I feel he is trolling at this point. I almost wish you were right, but he is too bright in general to fall for that stuff.


I don't think "bright" matters when one is so completely enamored of one's own preconceptions.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:06 am 
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Monte wrote:
I lost because my opinion is not popular here? Heh.

Look, people can hate on Islam all they want in this thread. It's sad, but it's unsurprising. I guess we haven't got over our knee jerk (and tragic) fears from 9-11. Still waiting for the eeeevil Islamofascists to jump from the ally ways.

Sigh. We will never, ever learn.


seriously holmes... you have just proven that YOU are what Mencia was referring to in the dong "Dee dee dee"

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:28 am 
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As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right

Nice to see people comparing those who defend our better virtues to mentally retarded people. *clap*. Well done, sir. Classy.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:09 am 
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Montegue:

How, exactly, is calling the plan to build a Mosque in that location tactless, fear and hate and bigotry?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:40 am 
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Monte wrote:
As usual, Jon Stewart gets it right

Nice to see people comparing those who defend our better virtues to mentally retarded people. *clap*. Well done, sir. Classy.


All he did was make it mildly funny and at the same time spin it to his personal beliefs, which dont get me wrong, is a powerful combination and he's good at it. He simply cherry picked minor incidents and displayed them so they appeared to help his argument while avoiding the big questions that he simply couldn't answer. For instance Staten Island is my home town, Stewart presents it as if it's just some locals intolerant to Islam, the reality is a bit more.. nuanced:

http://www.examiner.com/x-37739-NY-Poli ... hurch-vote

He then avoids the point that there are already mosques within NYC and why are they choosing to build it there? He doesnt even address other questions that have come up.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:52 am 
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Khross wrote:
Montegue:

How, exactly, is calling the plan to build a Mosque in that location tactless, fear and hate and bigotry?


Shall we look at the protest signs? Shall we replay the vocal objections to the mosques from it's biggest opponents?

The Mosque is being built two city blocks away from ground zero. There is another Mosque that's only 4 blocks from ground zero, and it's been there for 40 years or more. It's not even a full-on mosque (not that it would change my mind if it were), it's an Islamic community center.

It's also part of a disturbing trend of anti-Islamic sentiment in the country. In Wisconsin and Tennessee there are major uprisings against Muslims who just want to build and establish a place to worship.

So, why is it fear, hate and bigotry? Because the position that it's tactless presumes that all Islam = Radical Islam as a baseline for the objection. The position you are taking lends credibility to the false and defamatory notion that Islam itself is the enemy.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Khross wrote:
Montegue:

How, exactly, is calling the plan to build a Mosque in that location tactless, fear and hate and bigotry?


Shall we look at the protest signs? Shall we replay the vocal objections to the mosques from it's biggest opponents?


The fact that some people may have fear or hate does not mean that everyone who objects is doing so from fear or hate.

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The Mosque is being built two city blocks away from ground zero. There is another Mosque that's only 4 blocks from ground zero, and it's been there for 40 years or more. It's not even a full-on mosque (not that it would change my mind if it were), it's an Islamic community center.


The underlined portion indicates why that other mosque is irrelevant. As for a "full on mosque", yes, it is. The fact that there's also a community center doesn't make it not a "full mosque". Something is either a mosque or it isn't in Islam.

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It's also part of a disturbing trend of anti-Islamic sentiment in the country. In Wisconsin and Tennessee there are major uprisings against Muslims who just want to build and establish a place to worship.


Major uprisings, huh? Has the National Guard been called to deal with them?

This sort of thing; building a mosque at this location is what feeds that sentiment, just like calls to behead people for "insulting Islam". You can't have it both ways; expecting non-muslims to just ignore muslims who behave outrageously and scrupulously avoid cricticizing them because that somehow attacks ll of Islam is absurd.

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So, why is it fear, hate and bigotry? Because the position that it's tactless presumes that all Islam = Radical Islam as a baseline for the objection. The position you are taking lends credibility to the false and defamatory notion that Islam itself is the enemy.


No it doesn't. You cannot possibly draw the conclusion that opposing this mosque as tactless presumes that all of Islam - radical Islam.

Unless, of course, you're a gigantic **** moron.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Shall we look at the protest signs? Shall we replay the vocal objections to the mosques from it's biggest opponents?
Except, we're not discussing those responses; and, inasmuch as it pertains to this forum, no one is supporting those responses. The community response here, that is at the Glade, is fairly uniform: it is their right and their ability to build the mosque/community center/whatever it is where they choose; it's just a tactless act.
Monte wrote:
The Mosque is being built two city blocks away from ground zero. There is another Mosque that's only 4 blocks from ground zero, and it's been there for 40 years or more. It's not even a full-on mosque (not that it would change my mind if it were), it's an Islamic community center.

It's also part of a disturbing trend of anti-Islamic sentiment in the country. In Wisconsin and Tennessee there are major uprisings against Muslims who just want to build and establish a place to worship.
It's not part of any trend. The people at the Glade have simply commented that a more appropriate (less politically sensitive) location could be found. No one has said they can't build there; we have said they should not. There is a huge difference. You, however, insist on conflating that opinion with all sorts of negative responses for some reason that isn't exactly clear.
Monte wrote:
So, why is it fear, hate and bigotry? Because the position that it's tactless presumes that all Islam = Radical Islam as a baseline for the objection. The position you are taking lends credibility to the false and defamatory notion that Islam itself is the enemy.
No, it doesn't. It simply accepts that the location is politically sensitive and a little common sense would dictate NOT making an issue of a still bleeding wound. But, whatever, your selective memory is showing again. I'll let someone else tell you why ...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Nice to see people comparing those who defend our better virtues to mentally retarded people. *clap*. Well done, sir. Classy.


Wow... listen to the song cockstain. It says right at the beginning, it is not mentally retarded it is stupid.

Of course you would have to remove your mouth from the presidential cock long enough to get your head in front of a TV. Moron.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:42 pm 
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The American Family Association recently gave the following statement -

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Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America ... Because of this subversive ideology, Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment. They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether. There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Islam, and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:43 pm 
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As has already been discussed in at least one thread the AFA is almost the largest bunch of **** nutbar whackjobs out there.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:44 pm 
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The AFA are idiots. In other news, water is wet, the sky is blue, and Montegue willfully misconstrues opposing viewpoints.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Or, did the AFA issue the following statement:

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In Support of Mosques
Date: 8/11/2010 8:30:40 AM
Elijah Friedeman, the Millennial Perspective

Well, actually, this post is in support of Muslims' freedom to have a place of worship.

I've already had my say on the proposed Ground Zero mosque (here and here). So I won't delve into that messy, controversial, but important discussion. I am, however, throwing my support behind religious freedom in this nation.

Bryan Fischer is calling for no more mosques to be built in America. Period. And, as I'm sure it's no surprise to regular readers, I respectfully disagree.

Mr. Fischer's case against mosques is based on the thought that "Each one (mosque) is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center." I agree with that statement. Each and every mosque could potentially - existing in possibility - be a threat, but the fact is that the very large majority of mosques don't threaten America's existence or anything for that matter.

Mr. Fischer also decries the "Grand Jihad" which Andy McCarthy has written about. I must confess that I haven't read the book, but I have read McCarthy's remarks about the Ground Zero mosque, and from what I've read he in no way wants to legally stop the construction of the Ground Zero mosque, nor, by extension, does he want to circumvent the law to stop the construction of all mosques.

The final argument presented by Mr. Fischer in opposition to mosques is a statement from 1991 issued by the Muslim Brotherhood. The statement is sobering, scary in fact, but it's important to realize that the Muslim Brotherhood is not synonymous with Islam. Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is obviously composed of Muslims, but not all Muslims, or even the majority from what I know, are members of this organization. In fact, the Muslim Brotherhood has even been banned in Egypt. And the Department of Defense has labeled the Muslim Brotherhood in America as a "threat organization." So it's not like these are the Muslims next door. The Muslim Brotherhood is an obviously radical organization. Any statement from the Muslim Brotherhood should in no way be taken as indicative of Muslims' views in general.

I will maintain, as I've done repeatedly in the past, that we absolutely cannot suspend our principles, and in this case the Constitution, just because we feel like it. If we ignore the legal foundation of our nation, we will be left in a legal quicksand with no protection from others who want to suspend our freedoms when they feel like it.

I would give the Devil the benefit of the law, if for no other reason than my own safety.


Maybe both viewpoints were on the blog? Hey what do you know? They are!

Quote:
No more mosques, period
Date: 8/10/2010 10:06:05 AM
by Bryan Fischer

Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero. This is for one simple reason: each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.

Each one is a potential jihadist recruitment and training center, and determined to implement the “Grand Jihad” of which Andy McCarthy has written.

Here is the strategy, in their own words, in the words of “An Explanatory Memorandum” circulated by the Muslim Brotherhood in 1991 which outlines “the General Strategic Goal” for the Islamic movement “in North America.”

Read it and shudder:

Muslims “must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions...It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny...” (emphasis mine)

Because of this subversive ideology, Muslims cannot claim religious freedom protections under the First Amendment. They are currently using First Amendment freedoms to make plans to destroy the First Amendment altogether. There is no such thing as freedom of religion in Islam, and it is sheer and utter folly for Americans to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

Ask the Hutaree Christian militia how much good it did them to plaster Bible verses all over their website while plotting attacks against government officials. They are currently pondering the limits of the First Amendment, as they should, from the inside of a jail cell. The First Amendment cannot be used as a cloak for subversive activity.

Nina Shea of the Hudson Institute has demonstrated that the Saudi Arabian government has supplied educational materials to all of its American mosques that direct Muslims to spill the blood of the infidel Christians and their Jewish counterparts.

The $100 million mosque on Ground Zero, a $100 million memorial to the glorious Muslim martyrs of 9/11 and built to celebrate the glorious conquest of Allah on that day, will almost certainly be built with lots and lots of Saudi money.

The mosque’s imam, Faisal Rauf, will soon launch a fund-raising tour for this monument to slaughter in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Dubai. Even worse, American taxpayers are paying for this elaborate money-grubbing tour, money Rauf intends to use to destroy this nation from within. It’s hard to imagine anything more grotesque.

Rauf refuses to condemn Hamas, and has said that America was an “accessory” to what happened on 9/11. He also helpfully blamed the U.S. for Osama bin Laden. 9/11 is all our fault, you see.

The Saudis already provide the funding for 80% of the mosques in America, sowing their seeds of subversion and violent overthrow on a weekly basis in one American city after another. And it’s not just in major metropolitan areas. Murfreesboro, Tennessee is engulfed in a community controversy over Muslim plans to build a jihadist recruitment center (aka a mosque) there.

Bottom line: it’s suicidal for America to allow terrorist training cells to crop up all over the fruited plain. And each mosque is an actual or potential terrorist training cell, as Anwar al-Awlaki has demonstrated. His north Virginia mosque was used to radicalize three of the 9/11 jihadis as well as the Major Hasan who shot up the infidel idolaters at Fort Hood.

Germany finally got around this week, nine years after the fact, to shutting down the mosque which aided and abetted 9/11 attacker Mohammed Atta. The reason? It’s still in the radicalization business, and has been, week after week, for the last decade.

American Muslims are being radicalized every single day in American mosques. We are sowing the seeds of our own destruction by allowing these improvised explosive devices to be established in community after community.

If a mosque was willing to publicly renounce the Koran and its 109 verses that call for the death of infidels, renounce Allah and his messenger Mohammed, publicly condemn Osama bin Laden, Hamas, and Abdelbaset al Megrahi (the Lockerbie bomber), maybe then they could be allowed to build their buildings. But then they wouldn’t be Muslims at that point, now would they?


You would be best served by posting direct quotes when using the quote feature. I know it's hard, but it's the accepted practice, and it protects you from people who will accuse you of "cherry picking" and the like.

Or, did the lib website that posted your chopped up "statement", neglect to tell you it was a BLOG POSTING, you know, FROM A BLOG, as opposed to a "statement" issued by an organization? I guess a headline like: "The American Family Association recently had the following blog posting on their blog", wouldn't carry enough screaming hyperbole. You know when even asshats aren't demented enough to actually do what you characterized them as doing, it's time to take a look at yourself and ask why you need to fabricate **** in order to create the idiocy you desire others to display.

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Last edited by Vindicarre on Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:47 pm 
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the AFA is still nutbar whackjob stuff

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Most assuredly, but even that wasn't good enough for Monte.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:56 pm 
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And Monte still makes every organization a monolith of any whacked out statement any of its members makes, if it supports his argument.

Really, why do we even react to Monte on his quest for liberal martyrdom? More than trolling, he's fishing this board for information to use elsewhere, if my analysis is correct - it may not be.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Is hoping for a sock party in bad form?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Yeah, Micheal, I can just imagine some of the "statements" The Ranger's Glade has "given".

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:19 pm 
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More the links and references we've given in support of our arguments (collectively). Anyone who uses statements on this board as a political resource is really fishing though.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:21 pm 
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Nah, he doesn't even read his own sources, much less ours.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:23 pm 
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You have a point.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:31 am 
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Monte wrote:
It's also part of a disturbing trend of anti-Islamic sentiment in the country. In Wisconsin and Tennessee there are major uprisings against Muslims who just want to build and establish a place to worship.


I don't know about Wisconsin, but my son was at one of the protests held in Murfreesboro, Tennessee (supporting the building of the mosque, I might add!). It was hardly a major uprising! It was all very civil, no bloodshed whatsoever!!

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