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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:39 am 
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I held off on watching this on DVD until I could enjoy it in my new house (surround sound cranked up for the first time in 3 years).

I really enjoyed this movie. I am glad they did a good job with this movie, Terminator 3, also known as Terminator Salvation. Terminator 3, the third Terminator movie, which is also known as Terminator Salvation, lived up to my expectations.

I hope that when they make Terminator 4, the fourth Terminator movie, the one after Terminator Salvation, that it is made just as well as this one.

My only beef with the movie is:
Spoiler:
They should have had a scene at the end of the movie showing Kyle, John, and others giving Marcus a proper and respectful military burial. And they should have shown a gravestone with his name on it, maybe with the word "Friend" on it or something. This would have been a very, very significant scene. Why? Because Kyle tells Marcus much earlier in the movie, "You know what the difference between us and the machines are? We bury our dead. Nobody will bury you." Tsk tsk tsk. Such wasted writing potential and would have been the ultimate cherry on top of this good movie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:59 am 
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It was the fourth Terminator movie, unless you are in denial about Terminator: Geezer against Skynet.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:45 am 
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T3 doesn't exist.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:49 am 
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Nevandal wrote:
T3 doesn't exist.

Of course it does. It's on a shelf right next to Highlander 2 and Godfather 3.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:56 am 
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Don't forget all "The Crow" sequels, and MST3K.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:43 am 
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Nevandal wrote:
and MST3K.


YOU DIE! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!!

Heretic.

/squinty eyes

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:39 pm 
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What does LTTP mean? Late to the party?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Ladas wrote:
What does LTTP mean? Late to the party?


Jes.

I had to google it myself. Twas a new one for me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Was the "third" Terminator bad or something? Was that the one with the girl terminator?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Elessar wrote:
Was the "third" Terminator bad or something? Was that the one with the girl terminator?

Yeah. I seem to be alone around here in actually liking that movie. A hot lesbian terminatrix, more explosions than even Cameron can dream up, and a nice closing of the time-paradox loop. What more can you ask for?

Oh, and I'm even more LTTP on this one, now that I know what that means.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:34 pm 
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This fantasy Terminator 3 would suck, if it existed, because it would piss all over James Cameron's movies. And then it would take a dump on his movies. And after it finished, it would then spit on them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:40 pm 
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T3 wasn't that bad. It continued the timeline just fine, and, as mentioned, closed the time loop very satisfactorily. T: Salvation didn't re-open it, so I still consider the franchise complete.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:58 pm 
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I don't get the beef with T3 either. "It crapped on James Cameron" is an insufficient explanation.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Ugh. I agree with Señor Ogre here. I couldn't stand Terminator 3. It was poorly assembled (looking and feeling more more like a direct-to-video sequel than a legitimate Terminator movie), with a hideous, overly jokey script and phoned-in performances.

And WTF is up with the MST3k hate?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:38 pm 
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FarSky wrote:
Ugh. I agree with Señor Ogre here. I couldn't stand Terminator 3. It was poorly assembled (looking and feeling more more like a direct-to-video sequel than a legitimate Terminator movie), with a hideous, overly jokey script and phoned-in performances.

And WTF is up with the MST3k hate?

Might be a fundamental difference of personalities. I've never been able to take more than about 10 minutes of MST3K, 2K, etc., but I like the not-Numbuk T3.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:00 pm 
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I'll admit that T3 wasn't as good as the others, but it was still action packed. And, best of all, Arnold was still the Terminator. If I had one real complaint about Salvation, it would be that Arnold wasn't the star.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Actual Terminator 3 was just fine. Salvation was WAY underrated, tho.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:27 am 
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MST3K is awesome. If you've never gotten it, watch it early in the morning.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:37 am 
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In order to understand why I hate T3, you have to understand why I think Cameron's first two movies are very good.

1. James Cameron's first Terminator movies were perfect dichotomies of each other. Two people sent back in time to do the same missions, one big and scary looking, the other slim. Roles reversed in both movies.

2. "The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make." That was the driving force behind T2, even moreso if you watch the Director's Cut. Having T2 end with the possibility that Judgment Day could actually be avoided, and leaving it up to the viewer to decide, was a specific decision made by Cameron. So much so that he changed the original ending of T2 which showed Judgment Day did indeed not happen. It makes a statement about humanity and that we are control of our own lives and destinies. I like movies with statements, even if veiled.

3. The T-800 in T2 made a rather large sacrifice. He learned and understood the importance of destroying Skynet and the importance of humanity so much so that he went against his hard-wired programming (he disobeyed direct orders from John).


T3 pisses all over each of those things. It destroys the dichotomy of the first two movies by re-hashing (poorly, I might add) the plot from the second movie. It destroys Cameron's message about "no fate" by laying it all flat-out that Judgment Day does indeed happen... and, inso-doing, also completely nullifies the importance of the T-800's sacrifice in T2.

I don't mind movies like Terminator: Salvation because if T-3 never existed, you could (if you believed Judgement Day doesn't happen, since Cameron gave you that choice) view it as a "What If?" or an alternate future. In fact, that is exactly what I was hoping T3 was going to be when I first heard it was announced.

I know some people need things spelled out for them. They don't like things left up to themselves. They want it all clear, black and white. But sometimes having things spelled-out too clearly ruins some of the point of certain stories. This was very much the case with T3. Another perfect example is the difference between the original and Director's cut of Donnie Darko.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:49 am 
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Numbuk wrote:
In order to understand why I hate T3, you have to understand why I think Cameron's first two movies are very good.

1. James Cameron's first Terminator movies were perfect dichotomies of each other. Two people sent back in time to do the same missions, one big and scary looking, the other slim. Roles reversed in both movies.

2. "The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make." That was the driving force behind T2, even moreso if you watch the Director's Cut. Having T2 end with the possibility that Judgment Day could actually be avoided, and leaving it up to the viewer to decide, was a specific decision made by Cameron. So much so that he changed the original ending of T2 which showed Judgment Day did indeed not happen. It makes a statement about humanity and that we are control of our own lives and destinies. I like movies with statements, even if veiled.

3. The T-800 in T2 made a rather large sacrifice. He learned and understood the importance of destroying Skynet and the importance of humanity so much so that he went against his hard-wired programming (he disobeyed direct orders from John).


T3 pisses all over each of those things. It destroys the dichotomy of the first two movies by re-hashing (poorly, I might add) the plot from the second movie. It destroys Cameron's message about "no fate" by laying it all flat-out that Judgment Day does indeed happen... and, inso-doing, also completely nullifies the importance of the T-800's sacrifice in T2.

I don't mind movies like Terminator: Salvation because if T-3 never existed, you could (if you believed Judgement Day doesn't happen, since Cameron gave you that choice) view it as a "What If?" or an alternate future. In fact, that is exactly what I was hoping T3 was going to be when I first heard it was announced.

I know some people need things spelled out for them. They don't like things left up to themselves. They want it all clear, black and white. But sometimes having things spelled-out too clearly ruins some of the point of certain stories. This was very much the case with T3. Another perfect example is the difference between the original and Director's cut of Donnie Darko.


Actually, without a parallel universe theory of time travel, it is impossible for Judgement Day to not happen. Since that is unlikely the theory of time travel used, your entire conclusions about the end of T2 would be unfounded.

Hence, bullet point 2) is irrelevant.

I don't remember point 3).

I find 1) to be of incredibly low concern, personally, but I guess I see how somebody could care.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:31 am 
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DFK! wrote:
I don't remember point 3).

I believe in point 3, Numbuk is refering to when the Terminator elected to be lowered into the molten steel to destroy the only remaining chips that would lead to the development of Skynet. Which, as such, I dispute this Terminator made a large sacrifice and ignored orders. His original orders were to protect the young Conner, and the only means to insure that order was carried out was to follow the logical progression that if destroying the remains from the first movie was a goal in that cause, so would be destroying the rest.

I also think that Numbuk is mistaken in his claim that Cameron left open the possibility that Judgement Day was avoidable. T1 established the date of Judgement Day, which was unchanged in T2, despite the fact that the technological advances that allowed for Judgement Day to occur on that date were directly the result of the events in T1.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Yeah, T2 pretty solidly confirmed that the franchise wasn't using an parallel worlds time travel model, so it didn't leave anything open.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Numbuk wrote:
In order to understand why I hate T3, you have to understand why I think Cameron's first two movies are very good.

1. James Cameron's first Terminator movies were perfect dichotomies of each other. Two people sent back in time to do the same missions, one big and scary looking, the other slim. Roles reversed in both movies.

2. "The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make." That was the driving force behind T2, even moreso if you watch the Director's Cut. Having T2 end with the possibility that Judgment Day could actually be avoided, and leaving it up to the viewer to decide, was a specific decision made by Cameron. So much so that he changed the original ending of T2 which showed Judgment Day did indeed not happen. It makes a statement about humanity and that we are control of our own lives and destinies. I like movies with statements, even if veiled.

3. The T-800 in T2 made a rather large sacrifice. He learned and understood the importance of destroying Skynet and the importance of humanity so much so that he went against his hard-wired programming (he disobeyed direct orders from John).


T3 pisses all over each of those things. It destroys the dichotomy of the first two movies by re-hashing (poorly, I might add) the plot from the second movie. It destroys Cameron's message about "no fate" by laying it all flat-out that Judgment Day does indeed happen... and, inso-doing, also completely nullifies the importance of the T-800's sacrifice in T2.

I don't mind movies like Terminator: Salvation because if T-3 never existed, you could (if you believed Judgement Day doesn't happen, since Cameron gave you that choice) view it as a "What If?" or an alternate future. In fact, that is exactly what I was hoping T3 was going to be when I first heard it was announced.

I know some people need things spelled out for them. They don't like things left up to themselves. They want it all clear, black and white. But sometimes having things spelled-out too clearly ruins some of the point of certain stories. This was very much the case with T3. Another perfect example is the difference between the original and Director's cut of Donnie Darko.


Nice synopsis of how and why you dislike it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Just remember, Judgment day had to happen because history abhors a paradox. Judgment day not happening would be a paradox and history would purge whatever caused the paradox so that Judgment day would happen.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:15 am 
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Paradoxes can be ignored by the viewer just like time travel and killer sentient cyborgs existing (at all) can be ignored.

Now you guys know why I don't like T3. You asked for them. Attempting to argue against my reasons for disliking it is 100% futile. You may as well attempt to convince me to like saurkraut via a worded online debate. And I wish you luck with that.

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