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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:49 pm 
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The Game Master.
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Hopwin wrote:
I like this line of reasoning, basically the ego gave rise to property. Almost as if "I think, therefore I am... and that **** over there is mine." To me this argument makes sense, but what happens when two egos claim the same property?


Law exists, or is created.


The foundation of law is basically dispute resolution alternative to arms. Hence, theoretically in a libertarian or rights-based republic, government exists to protect rights by "mediating" disputes. Which disputes they mediate depend upon what is in their jurisdiction.

Local municipalities -> Individuals
State -> Local municipalities
Federal -> States.

The problem is that they're all trying to 1) "mediate" at the individual level (i.e.: expand their jurisdiction, gaining more authority or "power") and 2) do more than simply "mediate."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Most societies don't believe in property rights...

So what?

That dosen't prove that individuals don't and haven't. Infact, historically, most of our greatest thinkers have, and did.


You said that rights and property are equivalent. That means when someone says to you, "I don't believe in property," he might as well be saying, "I have no right to life," and this will be true regardless of what kind of society he comes from. This is absolutely ridiculous.


Do you own yourself?

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Do you own yourself?


No, not in the same sense that you own land or other material things. I can't transfer my thoughts, feelings, subjective experience of the world, etc. to another person, hence my "self" lacks a key element of property/ownership - alienability.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:16 pm 
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You absolutely can transfer those things. Hence "intelectual property".

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:22 pm 
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IP is still a product created by my mind, not my mind itself. Selling IP is similar to selling a table I built with my labor - in each case, you bought something I made; you didn't buy "me". Even slavery isn't selling my "self"; it's only selling my body. Basically, the only way for me to truly transfer my "self" might be if we develop some technology that enables another person to both experience and control my every thought, emotion, and subjective experience of the world in real-time, 24/7. And depending on your religious/philosophical view of what constitutes the "self", even that might not qualify as a true transfer of a person's essence.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:37 pm 
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As far as I can tell, your "ownership" of yourself is limited, because there are other things in the world that restrict your use of yourself.


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