The Glade 4.0

The data doesn't actually say what you want it to say.

People are trying to use this one snippet of data from a small slice of time as a justification to show that Fox News is not biased or attacking the President. I can't watch the network for 5 minutes without them attacking Obama. Fox News is responsible for perpetuating false and misleading information about nearly every policy Obama has put forward. They have given wide platform to the Birther movement, and basically every other conspiracy theory that has ever been tossed out about Obama. They do this because that's their job - to misinform the public, to play to a conservative base more interested in news they like to hear than news that's actually news, and to attack liberals and democrats at every opportunity.

Fox News is not a legitimate news outlet.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

I don't want it to say anything. I don't care about Fox that much, read my signature. I hate to use your own "words" but, there you go again assigning me my position.

I'm simply pointing out that your method of "debunking" other people's claims is one giant fallacy. You make a statement by fiat, then go on a rant that's completely grounded in subjectivity and stand back, admire your work and call it "good." Let's look your post above:


You make a statement by fiat...


...[then go on a rant that's completely grounded in subjectivity...

The bolded part is especially fitting. The underlined part could be considered true, but is not a merit or flaw in and of itself unless you presume a position before evaluting them.


...and stand back, admire your work and call it "good."

This post was almost mold casted.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Monte,

What organization or organizations are required to validate the legitimacy of a media outlet?

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Montegue, even if everything that you're saying about Fox news is 100% true, we're still left with the ugly reality that "declaring war" on Fox news is completely politically retarded. Setting aside any questions of propriety, there is simply nothing good to be gained for the Obama administration by engaging in this tactic. It just makes me question the White House staff's political competence.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Hmmm, who's the viewer base at Fox? It would seem to me that the rhetoric you're using would lead one to believe that the case is that an overwhelming majority of FNC viewership is Republican, when that's been found not to be the case according to this study:



When you correlate that with the prime time quarterly news ratings, you'll find that more Democrats watch Fox news than any of the other options. Interesting, what were you saying about what the base wants to hear?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I see. So it's appropriate for government to make judgments about the legitimacy of news sources that oppose it, and then wage war against them if it deems them illegitimate?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I finally remembered what this whole topic reminds me of:

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

First of all, the idea that there is a war on fox news is generated by the news, not by the White House. The White House is giving them the cold shoulder, as well they should. There is simply no way that Fox is going to cover the white house with any sense of objectivity in mind at all. Ever. I doubt anyone here could make, with a straight face, the argument that they would do so.

It is appropriate for government to ignore propagandists and liars, yes. News sources aren't supposed to oppose or support an administration, they are supposed to report the facts. Those facts may not be good for an administration, and that's fine. And at some point, the facts may show that a given administration is way off the reservation. However, the administration is under no obligation, ethical or otherwise, to give an organization utterly devoted to it's downfall a platform by which to lie to the public and spew hatred. Fox has made it's bed, and it is not entitled to access simply because it exists.

Fox does not now care, nor has it ever cared, about the facts. They care about sensationlism and loyalty to conservatives and the GOP. They can't even be consistent about their positions. A year ago, it was treason to criticize the president in a time of war. Now it's their sacred duty. And they don't even blink about it.

These are not just subjective assertions, as Rafael has argued. This is simply the observable truth. To give my own experiences -

On the road, I have been subjected several times to Fox News in hotel lobbies, in my room (serious conservative co-worker), in restaruants and in bars. In every single solitary case, every person on Fox news, be they an anchor, a commentator, a pundit, or a guest, has been nothing but absolutely critical of the President, Democrats, and liberals. *Every single time*. Without exception. This has happened at different hours of the day, during different programs with different people - it does not matter. Any time a political story is on, it's an attack on the administration.

And don't get me started on the "some say" garbage that Fox calls legitimate sourcing. Or the platform they give to people like Orly Taitz or Jerome Corsi. Or for pete's sake, Joe the Plumber.

Fox news is a cess pit. It is not journalism.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

It is subjective. I think Fox has a lot of trashy programming, though I hardly have time to watch any TV news (most of what I do get is print or Internet).

However, it is incredibly arrogant for you to assert your opinion as "observable truth".

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

It never fails, when faced with hard facts, just keep repeating the same unsupported opinion as if that will make it true.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

If I drop a pencil, and it falls to the floor, and I observe that and say "this pencil dropped when I let go", that's not arrogant. The same is true for Fox New's rabid anti-Obama bias. It's just as clear as that pencil dropping to the ground. Every single time I see it, it's attacking obama, regardless of the time of day or the program.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

It never fails, when faced with hard facts, just keep repeating the same unsupported opinion as if that will make it true.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

That's because that's not a matter of opinion.



No, it's not. This is a matter of opinion. Even your assertion that every time you see it, it's attacking Obama is opinion. Just because you feel something is an attack doesn't mean it actually is.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Vindicarre, are you going to add anything useful to the conversation, or are you going to continue to snipe from the side lines? Currently, your posts are useless trolling. And while that's not against the rules, it's really kind of annoying. Seriously, either directly and constructively participate, or avoid posting.

Edit - No, DE, that isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of objective, observable fact. It happened again this morning at breakfast. Of the six stories covered, every one dealing with politics was an attack on Obama and the left. Every *one* of them. I'll observe again tomorrow and report on my findings. My guess is that it will be the SSDD.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

He's repeating no less than you are. In fact, his repetition is more factual and grounded in the discussion than yours. So, to be honest, he's contributing more to the discussion, IMO.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

No, it's NOT a matter of objective fact. I'm not even buying your claim about breakfast this morning, because the things you define as attacks often quite clearly are NOT attacks.

I don't care how many days you observe and report on your findings. Your opinions don't count.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Montegue, you'll notice that your tired tactic of argumentum ad nauseam is clear to all here. Seriously, try a new tactic. Perhaps you might consider attempting to post something that is not more clearly and concisely found directly on democraticunderground, or DailyKos. You'll get bonus points if you use some verifiable facts to back up your opinion.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

By which he means that repeating over and over your cricticisms of Fox News don't establish jack **** because they're argumentum ad nauseum. We get that you feel that way about Fox, but repeating it over and over and loudly insisting "it's fact!' doesn't make it so. You've provided no good reason to think that Fox is any more biased than anyone else, and if they aren't, then the bias they do have is unworthy of special attention.

Proff by Assertion, which is how you've been approaching this topic and many others, is not valid. It seems like you think deep down inside that many of us really accept that you're correct, but we don't want to admit it so we just keep ignoring your "facts".

Here's a hint: We don't. No one needs to "step back" or anything liek that. Most people here appear less committed to their politics than you are.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

viewtopic.php?p=9941#p9941

You were saying? Hell, you haven't even given a reason for that bizarre post.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

So they obviously don't deserve First Amendment protection.



And none of the liberal media outlets do that.

Do I understand your position correctly Monte?

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"If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me." - Alice R. Longworth

"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash Williams

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Wow, that these two paragraphs are posted together and by the same person is a bit bewildering. You realize you are chastising another person for being a "troll" while simultaneously insisting something that is your opinion is a fact while using it as the crux of your argument, right?

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Is this where I get indignant about you calling me a liar?



And this is reasonable debate how?"Your opinions don't count". Really? This is what I have observed. Am I lying or am I telling the truth?

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

It's not opinion, it's observable fact. It's as clear as the weather out side the hotel I'm currently at.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show