The Glade 4.0

You have an armory link?

I can pull 13 - 14k+ on saurfang in 10m so while I may not be the best out there I can probably at least help you determine where you could improve, if you like.

Also, it would be helpful if you walked me through a general attack rotation and buff-usage that you do.


Edit: Also, one of the biggest dps increases is using mods to help you minimize the time between debuff/buff refreshes. For me, this is from Power Auras. The single greatest mod I've ever used in WoW. Since you are mut spec, I could cut and paste my setup that is importable into power auras.

I prefer to have all the important information I need in a small field of vision, that way I don't spend time hunting on my screen to find vital info.

To give an idea of what I generally see when in combat, look at the picture below. What you are seeing is this.

On the left hand side it shows me how much time is remaining on hunger for blood and slice and dice, as well as the envenom proc. I've since swapped out the Hunger For Blood with how much time is remaining on Rupture. The purple aura tells me that my Tricks of the Trade is ready for use, so that I can ensure I am always keeping it on cooldown (I've since replaced this with two big purple daggers on my person). Power auras also lets me know when I don't have a flask buff active (but it only will alert me if I am in a raid). It also alerts me when my daggers aren't poisoned.

On the right hand side it shows me my stacks of deadly poison and my combo points. The health bar/energy bar at the bottom isn't power auras, but I wanted to see my health, target's health, and my energy bar down in the same area. So I found another mod to do that.

Oh, and I am back to being a troll again. Not a dwarf. It should also be noted that this screen spam only appears when I am in combat. I am a minimalist when not in combat.



Screenshot is a couple months old, gear has improved even further since. Not the best, but I do ok.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Another mod that's good is Forte Xorcist. That's the one at the bottom that creates the timer bars. The one that creates the dots is Combo Points Redux, and the one that does the big energy bar is EnergyWatch.

MSBT handles the announcements

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Holy shitsnacks!

I like Power Auras because it is the most customizable mod I've ever worked with. I used ComboPoints Redux, but I don't even use that anymore and replaced it with my custom Power Auras version of it, which gives me the exact same info. I prefer to use as few mods as possible, and since Power Auras can be customized to work with all classes (I use it for my mage and shaman too), it's just far too handy and can do the work of multiple mods for me not to suggest it.

The only downside to it is that it is so highly customizable, that it may be a little intimidating to some.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

You can actually set up Power Auras to display combo points, though it's a little tricky on implementing it. You do have a decent amount of control as to how it's displayed once you do, however.

Like Numbuk I find it the most useful addon ever. It's just so darn flexible and can be used for a whole lot of things. The new built-in Power Auras that show up when something special procs is just one of the ways, so don't limit yourself to thinking that's all you can do!

I don't have any proper screenshots for illustrating this, but managed to find one that sorta works:



I know I don't have the prettiest of UIs, but... for now we can ignore that. :p

It is cluttersome, however! We don't like clutter! And that is the basis of how I generally use Power Auras. At full blast it's actually more cluttered than that, but you get the gist of how it looks in combat by default.

The general method is... if I'm not using something that I should be using, there will be a Power Aura up. So in the case of that screenshot there is that big red Power Aura that is vaguely like parentheses enclosing the middle of my screen. That means Berserk is off cooldown -- when Berserk is used and not yet cooled down, it disappears. Orange Bloodlusty Aura just to the left of center? Target has no Mangle up (disable this Power Aura completely when another class is present that automatically applies the same debuff). Tiger picture bottom-left of center? Tiger's Fury is ready to be used. The only Power Auras that will be displayed for 95% of a fight are those for my combo-points (of which you can see all 5 in that screenshot) and about 50% of the time or so, that exclamation mark I have on the bottom left. That exclamation mark appears whenever either Rip or Savage Roar have 8 seconds or fewer remaining, which is a rough approximation of when I should not use Ferocious Bite. 5 combo points and that exclamation mark isn't displayed? Green light to use FB! Or at least it would be if Ferals didn't have to keep an eye on making sure Rip and Savage Roar aren't synced up... but it's a big help in making the final decision all the same. :p

In short, you banish the clutter by performing as you intend to! Great way to not forget to do X or Y.

Now if I can only figure out if Power Auras and ClassTimers both can do spells according to spellID rather than name... there are 3 different Rips and 2 different Berserks somewhat commonly used.

Yeah I've got Power Auras to display my combo points. And I have it flash a big dagger behind my points when it hits 4 or 5 combo points (the amount where you want to use your finishing move).

For my healing shaman I have it set up to warn me when earth shield is down to 1 or fewer stacks, so I can refresh it. I think I may add Riptide to it as well to pop up when it's not on cooldown, as that is something that should generally always be in use on someone.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

I use Dhud for all my characters... it basically does everything you guys are talking about

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Here's Me.

I'm capable of pulling 6k and even 7k on heroic bosses with some regularity, it seems odd to me that I was only able to do 2k more than that in an icc 25. Did 12k on the last vault run I was in as well.

Rogue mut rotation is pretty simple, though slightly more complicated than the two button show it was before. Start the fight with ambush from stealth (of course). SnD with those combo points. Mut to 4+, throw up a rupture. Rupture kept up, envenom with excess 4+ combo points. At 35% you switch to backstab instead of mut, finishers are the same.

Better daggers would jump my dps significantly, but they never drop for me. Have yet to kill rotface or valithria 25 in a pug though, only ever did that in guilds.

My gems are slightly wrong, I misunderstood the priority on those when I read up on it. Only really need to change a couple of them, though I'll probably have to reforge a few things as well.

Not quite sure what I should be reforging extra items to though. I know if you're over the crit cap you should reforge excess crit to haste, but not what I should do for items when you're under the crit cap.

I use a bunch of addons. Usually am running rogue power bars, which is a spell timer. Been using pitbull which has a nice combo point tracker, though I think I'm going to get a different one that I can pull into the middle of the screen a little more. When I wasn't sure I was doing my rotation right I downloaded Ovale spell priority to check it. It's not quite right for mut rogues as it rarely recommends rupture, almost always envenom. Actually just remembered that I need to make my raid addon setup, haven't done that and I've been running all of them while in a raid, which should make a little difference.

I'm hoping that trip into ICC just turns out to be some random crappy night, hoping to get back tonight and see if I can't do a little better.

I usually tend to Muti from stealth when I'm not prepotting. The extra CP I usually get helps to give a little padding on that first SnD.

Before pull, from stealth, I'll ToT the tank, pre-pot, then muti (pop hyperspeed accellerators and berserking) --> SnD --> Muti once --> Rupture --> Muti once (unless I get the 4pc proc) --> Env. From there keep Rupture up for the energy boost, Env @ 4+, and throw in a recup from time to time if I have time on both rupture and the env buff, and if I'm going to energy cap. Tricks on CD, and Vendetta and CB on CD.

During BL on LK 10 (h) last night I was pulling 16ish k overall I was running about 12 or so.

As far as reforging I reforged all the crit I could to hit and haste. I'm white hit capped with 2pts of precision, and am sitting at almost 1100 haste.

If it has hit/crit --> Reforge crit to haste.
If it has haste/hit --> Leave it alone.
If it has haste/crit --> Reforge crit to hit.

At least, that's how I read the EJ stuff

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Holy shitsnacks!

Better daggers wouldn't bump up your dps as much as you might think. I learned that lesson over and over.

Always Garrote when coming from stealth. Always. You want a bleed on your target as soon as humanly possible. Every second you don't have one of your bleeds on a target, you are losing dps. You need those extra damage ticks. You need that extra energy.

Here is what I do:

- Garrote from stealth
- Use that single combo point to put SnD on the target.
- Vendetta
- Mutilate to 4+ CPs
- Envenom to push SnD to it's full point maximum
- Garrote should finally be wearing off soon, so 4+ CP's then Rupture.
- Mut to 4+ CPs and then envenom, refreshing Rupture when possible.
- When "Overkill" wears off, I wait until after an envenom then I vanish and immediately Mut. (more overkill = more energy = more dps)
- Change CP generator from Mut to BS when target is at 35%, following the above rotation.

Now... the biggest thing that will push me above most other rogues is this: I never clip envenom. This means, If I am at 4+ combo points but my envenom buff is still on me, I wait until either A: It's at .5 seconds left or B: My energy is about to cap at 100%. When one of those two things happen, then and only then do I envenom.

Most rogues are impatient and want to use their finisher as soon as humanly possible when they have the energy to use it. This is a waste and a huge dps loss. You want to keep the envenom buff up as long as possible so you can get the most out of your instant poison procs. You will be doing the same amount of finishing moves whether you are pooling your energy or not (as long as you don't let your energy hit 100%). The difference is that you will be getting far more Instant Poison procs if you don't clip, and you'll have more buffered energy to use to refresh things like Rupture.

If you don't have the envenom buff up, then yes. You certainly do want to envenom the very second you have enough energy (and CPs) to use it. But while it's still up, you want to wait.


Edit: Almost forgot. Tricks of the Trade should always be on a cooldown. You should always be using it whenever possible. This is a DPS increase when you have two pieces of T10. If you group with another rogue, and you both play it smart, you can buff each other with TotT. But you both have to be keenly aware of your aggro, and I only recommend trading tricks after you BOTH tricks the tank at the start of the fight. And don't forget vanish.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Oh yeah... and your crit seems way high while your haste seems a little low.

Go through all of your gear and reforge every ounce of crit you have. You want to reforge it to haste (while keeping hit and expertise capped). If you can't choose haste to reforge to, choose mastery (EJ has recently shown mastery wins over moer Hit by a small margin).

Trust me. All crit must be reforged!


Oh... and I never tricks a tank before a boss pull. Unless your tank completely sucks, you should be able to get off a mut before you have to use TotT. You want as much free energy as you possibly can get, so it's best to save it for two seconds into the fight.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Bad rogue! No biscuit!

Tank snap aggro was severly nerfed with 4.0.1 so you're running a risk here if the tank gets a miss off the bat and/or you get a big crit early on.

It also helps the tank to establish good agro so the rest of your DPSers can get right to kicking ***.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Exactly.

Single-target threat isn't usually a big problem if you're not doing something derpy like dropping Death and Decay right off the bat on a single target, or spamming Searing Pain. Or engaging before the tank.

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Grenade 3 Sports Drink. It's fire in the hole.. Your hole!

Since I'm always stealthed before combat, the tank always gets a few solid hits in before I begin ripping into the mob since he always generally gets there before I do. I've never, ever, ever (including after the patch) had snap aggro on me from just my own threat. Ever. Just as I've never accidentally pulled a single target mob off of a tank. Seriously, ever.

The only time it's ever happened was a rogue who didn't understand how to trade TotT with another rogue, and put his TotT all on me at the beginning of the fight.

I hate dying, so pulling aggro is not something I'll ever do. If other rogues are doing it, then they're doing it wrong. Half-a-second before you Tricks will not get you killed if you are Mut spec and are stealthing before combat.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

I suspect it might be because you're using Garrote from stealth instead of Mutilate or Ambush.

Possibly. But any pve mutilate rogue should be using, and only using, Garrote. Pre 4.01, mutilate was perfectly fine as an opener. Post 4.01, it's Garrote.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

Meh. Garrote adds 1 cp, and is a pretty lackluster dot. Muti generally adds 3, and gives a bit more breathing room with getting the rotation up and running and doesn't have to be done from stealth. If you pre-pot, and tot the tank before engagement you don't have to wait for the tank to establish agro and can have that much more uptime on the boss. Rupture's going to be up within ~5 gcds anyway which is ~1 tick of garrote. I'm not 100% sure if the energy regen from Venomous wounds stacks with both bleeds.

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Holy shitsnacks!

Yeah, was kinda in this camp. I'm open to an argument for it, but I really didn't see Garote being all that great. Plus, Mut allows you to start attacking before being fully behind the mob which depending on how gung-ho your tank is maybe equal another second or two of combat time on the mob.

I am learning aggro management all over again... pre 4.01 I was all good.Post 4.01... I am pulling aggro off of a tank about 50% of the time after a single rotation.

I have not heard anything... but it would not surprise me if frost presence still had a bit of an aggro boost to it.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

No, it's that Frost DPS right now is crazy high especially on AoE.

I am an unholy DK, but Unholy presence is about as useful as a wang being built onto a race car.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Actually, Unholy Presence is going to do more for your DPS than frost ;p

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Grenade 3 Sports Drink. It's fire in the hole.. Your hole!

This. Unholy Presense is actually better for Frost 2H DPS too. Only Frost Dual Wield uses Frost Presense.

I would assume this is a change for 4.01? Every time I would switch to Unholy presence pre 4.01 I got called a newb...

**EDIT: Grumble Grumble... I missed EJ for a while and it is all bad. Going back through my class now.**

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut