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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:22 am 
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Obama backs India on permanent UN Security Council seat

US President Barack Obama has backed India's ambition for permanent membership of the UN Security Council.

In an address to India's parliament at the end of a three-day visit, Mr Obama lavishly praised India's development.

His remarks will delight India, which has been lobbying for a seat at the UN's top table for years.

Analysts say it does not mean India will get a permanent seat immediately; the unspecified UN reforms Mr Obama mentioned could take years.

The US leader also said the Washington-Delhi relationship would be one of this century's defining partnerships.

'Brought to justice'

The loudest applause came when Mr Obama told dignitaries: "As two global leaders, the United States and India can partner for global security - especially as India serves on the Security Council over the next two years.

"Indeed the just and sustainable international order that America seeks includes a United Nations that is efficient, effective, credible and legitimate.

India's chances of achieving its ambition for a permanent seat have certainly received a boost but the equation is a complex one and the solution not immediately clear.

If India is to get a seat, then Germany, Japan and Brazil will expect one as well.

Getting agreement for all four means that opposition from their opponents would have to be overcome.

There have been several attempts at reform over the years but nothing has happened: The default position is the status quo.
"And that is why I can say today, in the years ahead, I look forward to a reformed United Nations Security Council that includes India as a permanent member."

There are currently five permanent members of the Security Council: the US, China, France, the UK and Russia, which have the power to veto resolutions. Some nations have criticised the format as not reflecting the 21st century world.

In another important gesture to India, Mr Obama spoke about the threat of militancy from its regional rival, Pakistan.

He said: "We will continue to insist to Pakistan's leaders that terrorist safe havens within their borders are unacceptable, and that the terrorists behind the Mumbai attacks be brought to justice."

At the weekend, Mr Obama visited a memorial to victims of the 2008 militant attacks in Mumbai (Bombay). The attacks, which began on 26 November that year and lasted nearly three days, left 174 people dead, including nine gunmen.

White House officials revealed he had also briefed Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh about an American who has pleaded guilty in the US to laying the foundations of the attacks.

Mr Singh was told that while the US intelligence community had information about David Headley's activity, it was not specifically connected to Mumbai.


Mr Obama faced a protest over the 1984 Bhopal gas leak disaster In his speech, Mr Obama also paid tribute to independence leader Mahatma Gandhi, saying: "I am mindful that I might not be standing before you today, as president of the United States, had it not been for Gandhi."

Earlier, Mr Obama paid tribute to India as a world power, saying both countries would work together to promote stability and prosperity.

"As the world's two largest democracies, as large and growing free market economies, as diverse, multi-ethnic societies with strong traditions of pluralism and tolerance, we have not only an opportunity, but also a responsibility to lead."

Mr Singh said Washington and Delhi had decided to "accelerate the deepening of ties to work as equal partners in a strategic relationship".

Mr Obama has announced $10bn (£6.2bn) in new trade deals with India during his trip.

However, he has also faced some protests. On Monday, about 250 survivors of the Bhopal gas leak in 1984 gathered close to India's parliament.

They want Mr Obama to do more to extradite the former boss of the US company involved in the industrial disaster - the world's worst - and to increase compensation. About 4,000 people died at the time, and more than 10,000 more in the years that followed.

The US president is next due to visit Indonesia, South Korea and Japan on a 10-day Asian tour designed to boost US exports.


Interesting.

Not sure what my opinion is yet.

On the one hand, this may be a major foriegn relations coup. Even if India doesn't eventually get it, it will be much harder for anyone to claim the U.S. is trying to keep the Security Council an Old Boy's Club. Furture arguments that the U.S. just goes about doing whatever it pleases unilaterally and expects the rest of the world to fall in line will be much harder to sustain if we back this claim. We also gain great credibility with a country that is a possible counterweight to Russia and China.

On the other hand this may greatly anger Pakistan and create more of a haven for ISlamic extremism if their government suddenly gets a lot less interested in dealing with the Taliban. This also may not be a great thing from the standpoint that we're still treating the UN as a serious organization.

Then again, it isn't like Obama isn't a UN-wanker anyhow, and this could actually be good. Another veto means even more chances for resolutions to be vetoed. If Brazil were to get a seat as well (according to above they'd like one) that would be seven vetoes. The more vetos, the closer to unanimous anything has to be to pass, and that can quickly render the UN ineffective (well, more so than it already is). That would be a very good thing as it would reduce the influence of internationalist attempts to create organizations, especially courts, that presume to regulate at a super-national level.

India also is a non-signatory of the Non Proliferation Treaty, and getting a non-signatory nuclear armed state as a permenant member could greatly weaken, possibly even eliminate that treaty which would be a very good thing. Nations would then be free to develop sensible, affordable deterrents and defenses without having to pretend they are trying to support the red herring of disarmament.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:41 am 
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Dude, the reasoning behind this move is much simpler than all that: India wants something in exchange for the U.S. arming it's most hostile neighbor (Pakistan).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:23 am 
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Khross wrote:
Dude, the reasoning behind this move is much simpler than all that: India wants something in exchange for the U.S. arming it's most hostile neighbor (Pakistan).


I'm not buying that. We've armed Pakistan (on a very much on-and-off basis) for over 40 years and just now we need to give them something because.. why?

Probably for the reasons I stated above, especially if we're going to cut Pakistan loose.

In any case, I was really discussing the effects, not the reasoning.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:26 am 
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Khross wrote:
Dude, the reasoning behind this move is much simpler than all that: India wants something in exchange for the U.S. arming it's most hostile neighbor (Pakistan).

Naw, we just need more canon-fodder for the upcoming Chinese apocalypse and it'd be easier to fight that ground war from India than China or Korea.

I just reread that and realized I am only half-kidding, sad. I'd say it has more to do with India's strategic location. They are right next to the middle east, communist asia and the muslim extremists in the vast archipelago stretching down to Australia.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:40 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
I'm not buying that. We've armed Pakistan (on a very much on-and-off basis) for over 40 years and just now we need to give them something because.. why?
Dude, Obama's been snubbing India for 2 years while politicking all around that region. Strategery aside, he's honestly only bringing this up now because India wants a little quid pro quo.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:51 am 
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Yes....squid pro roe...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:07 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm not buying that. We've armed Pakistan (on a very much on-and-off basis) for over 40 years and just now we need to give them something because.. why?
Dude, Obama's been snubbing India for 2 years while politicking all around that region. Strategery aside, he's honestly only bringing this up now because India wants a little quid pro quo.


And? So what? What goal does he have in giving India some "quid pro quo"?

Sure, that's probably part of it, but this is entirely too major to be simply a bone he's throwing them.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm not buying that. We've armed Pakistan (on a very much on-and-off basis) for over 40 years and just now we need to give them something because.. why?
Dude, Obama's been snubbing India for 2 years while politicking all around that region. Strategery aside, he's honestly only bringing this up now because India wants a little quid pro quo.


And I figured it was for the whole "$10 billion trade agreement" thing he clinched.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:38 am 
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I don't like this idea. Giving too many countries veto power will result in nothing ever being approved.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:57 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
I don't like this idea. Giving too many countries veto power will result in nothing ever being approved.

He said as if it were a bad thing.

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