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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Do we assume that whatever departments we eliminate, we also eliminate their morass of conflitcting laws?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:05 pm 
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You'd still need an IRS under a consumption tax scheme, you think people wouldn't try to dodge it? Barter instead of exchanging cash, route payment for services through overseas accounts so the tax system doesn't see it, etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
You'd still need an IRS under a consumption tax scheme, you think people wouldn't try to dodge it? Barter instead of exchanging cash, route payment for services through overseas accounts so the tax system doesn't see it, etc.


So exactly what happens now?

As to bartering, well why should the government get a piece of that? If I have a $500 dollar laptop in blue and you have a $500 laptop in red and we switch, do we both need to pay tax on that transaction?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Uhm, because something like a 25% consumption tax would provide a massive incentive for people to avoid the use of cash whenever possible to not have to pay tax at all. I would say the whole system would fall apart as people switched to barter only or developed their own private currencies. The government would never collect much.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:48 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Hopwin wrote:
Ienan wrote:
Doesn't the DOE(nergy) hold the keys to the nukes?


DoE technically owns the nuclear warheads, but not the missiles or planes that carry them. There's really no reason it needs to be that way, but even if you wanted it to remain as a check against some part of the DoD attempting to take over the rest of the country with some of the nukes (which is tinfoil-hat-hall-of-fame-worthy) you could trim the DoE back to just the portion of the agency responsible for nukes and get rid of everything else. Personally I'd still want them to monitor and regulate nuclear power plants because we just can't take chances with that ****. Same thing with the power grid; we lose the power grid and we essentially lose the country. That's why EMP is a threat, but really it doesn't matter if we lose it to EMP or to power companies **** it all up. Lose power for too long and the ability to recover starts to deteriorate.

However, I'd trim the EPA back considerably, majorly neuter its enforcement power and put it under the DoE just to get all that sort of **** in one place. Things like the Departments of Labor and Health and Human Services would have to go. I'd look at cutting Transportation way back and possibly combining it with Energy. Interior and Homeland Security would probably become one department.


Spoiler:
In reality, the DoE in large doesn't oversee commercial or research nuclear facilities (and the licensing therein) nor processing, reclamation, storage or disposal entities (and their licensing). Those were under the purview of the Atomic Energy Act which became the current NRC more or less. Interestingly enough, DoT/NTSA actually has some regulatory influence for the latter functions because they involved transportation of materials . And in reality, the NRC itself farms many of its regulatory functions out to de-facto czar organization such as INPO and EPRI. This is especially true when it comes to industry best practices type items.

The reality is, most of NRC's function is performed (from a design perspective) at a microscopic level by de-facto regulatory professional type societies such as ANSI, ASME, IEEE, ASTM, NIST, AISC, AISI etc. Much as legislative derived code gives way to administrative regulation in terms of which law actually ultimately defines what you can and cannot do, NRC's regulatory guidelines are much the same way to INPO/WANO/EPRI and the sundry list of professional societies I provided (as well as ones I can't think of). The NRC may identify specific commonalities within plants for design vulnerabilities but they do not define specifically if and how you are vulnerable or have designed a robust barrier between yourself and such a vulnerability. Those issues and their myriad of aspects ultimately fall at the feet of those secondary entities which are oftentimes forced to develop specific design criteria. The problem is, the NRC doesn't have the ability to judge if the guidance provided will satisfy the intent of their regulation. It's more or less reactive to do so.
The truth is, the industry would follow these professional societies with or without the regulatory "guidance" of the NRC to do so because the large bulk of technical knowledge is invested in these types of organizations and in the general common engineering "library" of knowledge at large.

Even more disturbing is the somewhat racket like situation involving commercial power reactor licensing and commercial industry giants such as GE and Westinghouse. There is a 0% chance of a Hitatchi reactor ever coming online in the United States although GE Hitatchi has sold a few ABWR's already licensed in the US. Many of the Gen III+ type reactors have been denied license due the the complicated paperwork involved in licensing the plants and the fact that GE and Westinghouse basically hold the magic rubber stamp in the United States for commercial reactors. My personal opinion is the NRC at best, has severely retarded development of the industry in the United States (look to India and France to see the gap) and at worse made the US less safe in general. Post TMI and Chernobyl, when all pending combined construction/operation licenses were suspended and subsequently denied (or at least suspended indefinitely) many companies were forced to adopt long term strategies to keep plants in operation since new plants couldn't be brought online and seek license extensions (called renewals) pushing many plant components past their intended design life or into ages where evidence invalidates their original design life. Now, these of course can be replaced, but almost at a cost which almost makes the plant unprofitable.


edit: since I completely butchered the tags

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Last edited by Rafael on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Rafael wrote:
Quote:
In reality, the DoE in large doesn't oversee commercial or research nuclear facilities (and the licensing therein) nor processing, reclamation, storage or disposal entities (and their licensing). Those were under the purview of the Atomic Energy Act which became the current NRC more or less. Interestingly enough, DoT/NTSA actually has some regulatory influence for the latter functions because they involved transportation of materials . And in reality, the NRC itself farms many of its regulatory functions out to de-facto czar organization such as INPO and EPRI. This is especially true when it comes to industry best practices type items.

The reality is, most of NRC's function is performed (from a design perspective) at a microscopic level by de-facto regulatory professional type societies such as ANSI, ASME, IEEE, ASTM, NIST, AISC, AISI etc. Much as legislative derived code gives way to administrative regulation in terms of which law actually ultimately defines what you can and cannot do, NRC's regulatory guidelines are much the same way to INPO/WANO/EPRI and the sundry list of professional societies I provided (as well as ones I can't think of). The NRC may identify specific commonalities within plants for design vulnerabilities but they do not define specifically if and how you are vulnerable or have designed a robust barrier between yourself and such a vulnerability. Those issues and their myriad of aspects ultimately fall at the feet of those secondary entities which are oftentimes forced to develop specific design criteria. The problem is, the NRC doesn't have the ability to judge if the guidance provided will satisfy the intent of their regulation. It's more or less reactive to do so.[/spoiler]
The truth is, the industry would follow these professional societies with or without the regulatory "guidance" of the NRC to do so because the large bulk of technical knowledge is invested in these types of organizations and in the general common engineering "library" of knowledge at large.

Even more disturbing is the somewhat racket like situation involving commercial power reactor licensing and commercial industry giants such as GE and Westinghouse. There is a 0% chance of a Hitatchi reactor ever coming online in the United States although GE Hitatchi has sold a few ABWR's already licensed in the US. Many of the Gen III+ type reactors have been denied license due the the complicated paperwork involved in licensing the plants and the fact that GE and Westinghouse basically hold the magic rubber stamp in the United States for commercial reactors. My personal opinion is the NRC at best, has severely retarded development of the industry in the United States (look to India and France to see the gap) and at worse made the US less safe in general. Post TMI and Chernobyl, when all pending combined construction/operation licenses were suspended and subsequently denied (or at least suspended indefinitely) many companies were forced to adopt long term strategies to keep plants in operation since new plants couldn't be brought online and seek license extensions (called renewals) pushing many plant components past their intended design life or into ages where evidence invalidates their original design life. Now, these of course can be replaced, but almost at a cost which almost makes the plant unprofitable.


All very good information. This seems to me to be a good argument to eliminate the NRC and much of this morass of regualtion and agencies and put it under the DoE or DoI depending what plan you're talking about.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Ienan wrote:
In your example Hopwin, I'd combine those functions into the Department of Interior and Defense, which absolutely should exist. Defending the nation's power supplies is a function of our military and infrastructure should be handled by Interior. Transportation should be rolled into Interior as well and limited greatly. The EPA, FDA, and other regulatory agencies should be cut back a lot.


That's an interesting approach. I could go for that.

Agreed.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:05 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
All very good information. This seems to me to be a good argument to eliminate the NRC and much of this morass of regualtion and agencies and put it under the DoE or DoI depending what plan you're talking about.


Yes, essentially the technical expertise part of regulation is owned and developed in large through industry collaborative efforts such as INPO. However, I'm guessing they would argue removing the NRC would make INPO less effective because INPO and its utility members exists as a means to help keep the NRC from breathing down everyone's neck.

I think you could keep the NRC and maybe downsize it some. It's not a huge department. I suppose you could just integrate it to be a branch of the DoE and let the NHTSA aspects of it remain with NHTSA.

I agree in general with eliminating the IRS or at least greatly reducing its scope by simplifying the tax code. Not even the IRS can fully comprehend the scope of the massive tax law legislation that is in the books and it makes me question the actual use of the IRS.

I think part of the challenge around this is there simply isn't ever going to be agreement on what to cut. Whereas spending increases can be done through bipartisanship where both sides of the isle mutually jerk each other off (resulting in the fast fist happy circle jerk that is now Congress), spending cuts will not work the same way.

I hate to sound cynical, but I cannot honestly see either side agreeing to cut spending of their own pet projects to reduce wastefulness of the other.

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