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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:43 pm 
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This doesn't really affect me, but today one of the middle management types at work was loudly complaining about how he "installed thinkpoint on all his computers," how every computer had "multiple errors costing $80 to fix on them," and how he was going to let the IT head have it for this massive failure in the morning. For those of you who don't know, ThinkPoint is one of those scareware virus-type things that fakes an infection to scare you into sending them money. So tomorrow morning when the IT guy comes back he's going to have probably several days of extra work, in addition to getting ranted at for incompetence by the guy responsible for it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Are you kidding? That there's job security!

Couple hours overtime, get paid to listen to a guy ***** at me, and the look on his face when I go print out a google doc on exactly how stupid he was...PRICELESS!

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Last edited by Taskiss on Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:53 pm 
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It's Very, Very difficult. Our personality types usually drive us to turn our rage upon ourselves, and drink heavily.

Working in the IT field does help you lose faith in humanity's intelligence extremely quickly.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Most jobs where you have to deal with the average consumer will have you doing that...

we had to do a minor recall cause some lady confused a pessary for a tablet and almost choked on it... now it has a "WARNING: Do not try to swollow this" sign in red on the packaging...

sad thing is, the pack was never intended to have any tablets in the first place


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
Most jobs where you have to deal with the average consumer will have you doing that...

we had to do a minor recall cause some lady confused a pessary for a tablet and almost choked on it... now it has a "WARNING: Do not try to swollow this" sign in red on the packaging...

sad thing is, the pack was never intended to have any tablets in the first place


Oh no question, anything where you work with the public will prove to you that most people just... DON'T.... THINK. The sad part is, most warning labels were put in place retroactively. Someone did something stupid, tried to dry their hair in the bathtub with their hairdryer, and now we have a bigass red warning label.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Xeq,

That would be MMORPGs...

they save Lives

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
some lady confused a pessary for a tablet and almost choked on it...


HOW?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Call of Duty. I have had many killing sprees.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:00 am 
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Müs wrote:
Lydiaa wrote:
some lady confused a pessary for a tablet and almost choked on it...


HOW?
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Are those sex toys?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:15 am 
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Sounds like middle manager needs to be reminded why you have a head of IT guy - to stop idiots from trying to address things they think exist themselves.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:11 am 
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We have very discreet, quiet-like killing sprees. And then blame it on malfunctioning fire-suppressant automation.

It's also amazing how cathartic leaving the panel off a raised floor can be.


Also, very vivid imaginations help.

http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/earlier.html

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:39 am 
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I'm not IT. I see IT as something similar to working at the motor vehicle administration. Someone's got to do it, the job sucks, you deal with assholes all day, and because your job sucks, you suck at your job.

I rarely have a good experience with IT. They tend to "diagnose the problem" waay too quickly, assume I don't know what I'm doing, and as a result of their lack of listening, either don't solve the problem or take forever to solve the problem.

YMMV.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:02 am 
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I think you're lumping all of IT with first level support.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:26 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
I'm not IT. I see IT as something similar to working at the motor vehicle administration. Someone's got to do it, the job sucks, you deal with assholes all day, and because your job sucks, you suck at your job.

I rarely have a good experience with IT. They tend to "diagnose the problem" waay too quickly, assume I don't know what I'm doing, and as a result of their lack of listening, either don't solve the problem or take forever to solve the problem.

YMMV.

Aizle wrote:
I think you're lumping all of IT with first level support.


There's some truth to both of these statements, especially "Someone's got to do it, the job sucks, you deal with assholes all day, and because your job sucks, you suck at your job." The simple fact is, the vast majority (think more than 90%) of first-line's calls are cookie-cutter tickets they see at least a dozen times a week. Of those, more than half won't be an actual technical problem, but user incompetence (that most helpdesks don't actually support. That's what the training teams are for.) Meanwhile, the poor helpdesk agents are being appraised on how quickly they can get off the call (most of them have a very strict "average talk time" metric they have to meet), and the fastest way for even the best of them to get off the call is assume the averages, and only investigate more closely when it becomes obvious that it's not a normal call.

Then they usually escalate to me. And half the time, it's still likely the user's own incompetence. What the hell does HR do to screen people's computer usage skills, anyway? Get them to identify a computer in a photograph? Scratch that, a good third of them can't even do that. (Ask them to turn off their computer, they'll turn off their monitor.)

My response when they ask why it is that I, a second level tech, cannot walk them through their complex excel spreadsheet creation:

"You are the driver. I am the mechanic. Do not ask me how fast to take the corner. I am here for when you have a mechanical failure. You need to know how to drive."

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:51 am 
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Talya wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
I'm not IT. I see IT as something similar to working at the motor vehicle administration. Someone's got to do it, the job sucks, you deal with assholes all day, and because your job sucks, you suck at your job.

I rarely have a good experience with IT. They tend to "diagnose the problem" waay too quickly, assume I don't know what I'm doing, and as a result of their lack of listening, either don't solve the problem or take forever to solve the problem.

YMMV.

Aizle wrote:
I think you're lumping all of IT with first level support.


There's some truth to both of these statements, especially "Someone's got to do it, the job sucks, you deal with assholes all day, and because your job sucks, you suck at your job." The simple fact is, the vast majority (think more than 90%) of first-line's calls are cookie-cutter tickets they see at least a dozen times a week. Of those, more than half won't be an actual technical problem, but user incompetence (that most helpdesks don't actually support. That's what the training teams are for.) Meanwhile, the poor helpdesk agents are being appraised on how quickly they can get off the call (most of them have a very strict "average talk time" metric they have to meet), and the fastest way for even the best of them to get off the call is assume the averages, and only investigate more closely when it becomes obvious that it's not a normal call.

Then they usually escalate to me. And half the time, it's still likely the user's own incompetence. What the hell does HR do to screen people's computer usage skills, anyway? Get them to identify a computer in a photograph? Scratch that, a good third of them can't even do that. (Ask them to turn off their computer, they'll turn off their monitor.)

My response when they ask why it is that I, a second level tech, cannot walk them through their complex excel spreadsheet creation:

"You are the driver. I am the mechanic. Do not ask me how fast to take the corner. I am here for when you have a mechanical failure. You need to know how to drive."


Taly's got this on the nose. I'm second tier triage support for a VOIP provider, and I can't tell you how often I'm doing tier one support for our partners (that are actually selling the service). My job here is to diagnose the issue, and either fix it, or pass it on to a tech. I'm fairly good at what I do. I can fix quite a bit of stuff, and I know what's going to take bloody forever to fix, and kick it up the chain.

A lot of first tier support is working off a checklist, and *must* work through the checklist. If they get monitored and didn't work the list, they get in trouble. No matter how inane it seems. The quickest way to get through the tier one guy is simply to cooperate with them. Be patient and polite, and you'll be far more likely to get to where you need to be to get a problem resolved. If you're an *** (like 90% of the people that call) techs go into defense mode and will passive aggressively take out their frustrations on you. We talk to people all day, we know our rules, and we can get good at getting people worked up into a froth just by saying *no* and sticking to them. I've done it. Just follows the rule of "don't piss off your waiter". We're providing a service to you, and while you don't have to kiss our asses, it does behoove you to be somewhat professional and polite to us.

I remember when I worked for a cable company in their modem department, I had a guy cuss at me, call me every name in the book, and yell and rant and scream that I wasn't helping him, that he had already done everything I was asking him to do, etc. So, after ranting about how important he was, and scheduling him a tech to go out, I reset his cable modem every hour or so for the next three weeks. And I had a good friend do the same thing when I wasn't there. Was it a good thing for me to do? Not really. But at the time, the ******* deserved it. He was a bigshot "day trader" and full of his own self-importance. 3 weeks later, after having called us multiple times (I kept an eye on the service notes, and I wasn't the only tech he called and abused, he had done it before me, and after me), he finally cancelled his service. I cheered a little inside. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Müs wrote:
The quickest way to get through the tier one guy is simply to cooperate with them. Be patient and polite, and you'll be far more likely to get to where you need to be to get a problem resolved. If you're an *** (like 90% of the people that call) techs go into defense mode and will passive aggressively take out their frustrations on you. We talk to people all day, we know our rules, and we can get good at getting people worked up into a froth just by saying *no* and sticking to them. I've done it. Just follows the rule of "don't piss off your waiter". We're providing a service to you, and while you don't have to kiss our asses, it does behoove you to be somewhat professional and polite to us.


This applies at all levels of the support process. If you call to get a file restored--it's your fault, the company servers don't lose data. It's a service request, rather than a break-fix, and has a five business-day SLA. Despite this, it is quick to do, and the restore guys can get it back to you within a half hour on a slow day. Unless the person requesting it is being a belligerent ******* -- then it will take four and a half business days to finish, guaranteed.

Our first line guys are not following a script, they are legitimate (and mostly, competent) technicians on their own, and given the freedom to troubleshoot as they feel appropriate (but still must meet their call metric targets.) All of Mus's suggestions are still good ideas here, though.

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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Aizle wrote:
I think you're lumping all of IT with first level support.


Then they usually escalate to me. And half the time, it's still likely the user's own incompetence. What the hell does HR do to screen people's computer usage skills, anyway? Get them to identify a computer in a photograph? Scratch that, a good third of them can't even do that. (Ask them to turn off their computer, they'll turn off their monitor.)


See the consistency here? IT folks like to lump users all together as well. We're not all idiots. Stop, listen to the problem. Listen to what I've done, and what I'm trying to do.

It makes a lot of sense that level 1 support consists of a bunch of checklist monkeys. I get it. But I'm sure I don't need to explain how annoying it is when customer support doesn't listen to you.

And it's not just IT, either. I hate checklist monkeys. Use your brains.

But no, I suspect I wouldn't change it if I ran the company. I'm sure checklists solve 99% of the problems. So I suppose it makes sense to waste 1% of people's time - from a business perspective.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:39 pm 
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I was on a first level desk that was actually good enough to do (and did) 1st and second level together.

With the merger we've been moved to an oversight and monitoring position for special cases. The new helpdesk is made of script monkeys who were hired to be on a scripted desk but actually aren't on one - they have zero to tiny bit of technical knowledge and an average ability to find information in a knowledge base. The resulting quality has plummeted.

However it isn't their fault - the positions were advertised completely incorrectly and so attracted people who have skill sets that match the low pay. You want to blame something - blame it on being outsourced twice. Yes our contractor subcontracted it and the contractor was picked because it was believe to be too big a job for a smaller company - the subcontractor is smaller than the competent company that was there previously.

Anyway we have to treat the end user as if they know nothing - because most of the time they do know nothing and they've missed something earlier. Sorry they are not going to trust you because last time they trusted someone they spent 2 hours to find out that the user unplugged the monitor but never plugged it back in after swearing they did (they plugged it back into the outlet...oh there are two cords?).

Get over it. You AREN'T special. You are a call you are a timer ticking. You want to blame someone - blame the idiot that thinks time metrics are all that count because it keeps cost (and quality) down.

We deal with people (even at my level) that can't tell IE from firefox from outlook - they are all part of "the internet" and hell so is MS office. Your C drive is a network drive that you need something backed up because you can't copy and paste, you cut and paste but oops you cut something else before you pasted. You're new to a job that required extensive knowledge of excel pivot tables and call the helpdesk daily because you don't know how to get a function to add together two elements of a different sheet. Maybe it can't be your password because YOU KNOW your password! but forgot you changed it on Friday because two days is hell to remember. Maybe it is because the server is down and that is why you cannot open your docx file when you have office 2000 installed. Maybe its because you wanted to let the helpdesk know that the fridge in A23 smells bad and didn't the plate on every room that says to call facilities.

Your caller 24 in my 76 call day and you're getting treated exactly like that. Woe to thee if I can recognize your voice or userid in a bad way.

Everything that pisses you off on one call pisses them off on every call. Want better service - when they pick up say "Thank you for being there for me when I have these problems - what would you like to know?"

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Get over it. You AREN'T special. You are a call you are a timer ticking. You want to blame someone - blame the idiot that thinks time metrics are all that count because it keeps cost (and quality) down.


Can I blame you? Personally?

I don't care who's fault it is - IT generally sucks. You yourself just admitted it - "quality plummetted".

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We deal with people (even at my level) that can't tell IE from firefox from outlook - they are all part of "the internet" and hell so is MS office.


Get over it. Their incompetence and your poor working conditions is not my problem. Don't carry the baggage from your last 15 calls over into mine. Be a professional.

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Your caller 24 in my 76 call day and you're getting treated exactly like that.


Which is poor service. I'm not responsible for the previous 23 calls, if you can't treat me properly and without the baggage of your previous calls, then you're in the wrong business.

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Everything that pisses you off on one call pisses them off on every call. Want better service - when they pick up say "Thank you for being there for me when I have these problems - what would you like to know?"


I prefer to say "Thanks for being there for me - here's my problem."

Talk to me - treat me as an individual, not a checklist - that's just good service. If you want to follow checklists and watch your timer, fine. But guess what? Your service will suck.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Unfortunately, in many cases the Tier 1 support isn't really permitted to skip/deviate from the script, even when they can tell that the customer knows what they're talking about. So basically you're asking them to risk their job/wage rate in order to give you better service -- it's not exactly a fair position to put them in. These are the cases where your ire really should be directed at the management, not the techs. And also, the fact that no one wants to pay for tech support, so you pretty much get what you pay for.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Get over it. You AREN'T special. You are a call you are a timer ticking. You want to blame someone - blame the idiot that thinks time metrics are all that count because it keeps cost (and quality) down.


Can I blame you? Personally?

I don't care who's fault it is - IT generally sucks. You yourself just admitted it - "quality plummetted".

Quote:
We deal with people (even at my level) that can't tell IE from firefox from outlook - they are all part of "the internet" and hell so is MS office.


Get over it. Their incompetence and your poor working conditions is not my problem. Don't carry the baggage from your last 15 calls over into mine. Be a professional.

Quote:
Your caller 24 in my 76 call day and you're getting treated exactly like that.


Which is poor service. I'm not responsible for the previous 23 calls, if you can't treat me properly and without the baggage of your previous calls, then you're in the wrong business.

Quote:
Everything that pisses you off on one call pisses them off on every call. Want better service - when they pick up say "Thank you for being there for me when I have these problems - what would you like to know?"


I prefer to say "Thanks for being there for me - here's my problem."

Talk to me - treat me as an individual, not a checklist - that's just good service. If you want to follow checklists and watch your timer, fine. But guess what? Your service will suck.


Yeah. You're 'that guy'.

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Stathol wrote:
So basically you're asking them to risk their job/wage rate in order to give you better service -- it's not exactly a fair position to put them in.


No, I'm not.

Stathol wrote:
These are the cases where your ire really should be directed at the management, not the techs. And also, the fact that no one wants to pay for tech support, so you pretty much get what you pay for.


I'm not even sure that's really fair. As I said above, I'm not sure I'd change it.

The point is: Customer service, and in particular IT, generally sucks balls. It doesn't really matter who's fault that is.

AND: I hear almost nothing but ***** from IT folks about customers. I'm sure it's justified in most cases. Flip it around, and it's still justified in most cases.

Edit: Argh. Quote, not Edit! --Stathol


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Yeah. You're 'that guy'.


Meh - so what? I don't expect my clients to put up with me being in a bad mood because I'm having a bad day.

Don't get me wrong, there's no excuse for bad behavior in either direction.


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Edit: Argh. Quote, not Edit! --Stathol

???


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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Edit: Argh. Quote, not Edit! --Stathol

???

I accidentally replaced your post with my intended reply because I clicked "Edit" instead of "Quote". Then I reverted it back -- apparently before you noticed :p

Intended reply:

Arathain Kelvar wrote:
The point is: Customer service, and in particular IT, generally sucks balls. It doesn't really matter who's fault that is.

I don't necessarily disagree. But assuming that you actually want this situation to change, the matter of why customer service/tech support sucks totally matters.

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