The Glade 4.0

I could do $11 per day with full organic foods for two people without much trouble. It all depends what you want to eat. Organic meat and some vegetables = expensive. Organic cabbage, organic beans, and wild rice = not. Throw in some organic eggs, and some lean beef or chicken a few times a week and you can eat very healthy quite cheaply.

You lose some variety, but you can eat just as healthily.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Rodahn, I'm a little unclear on some things: Does your father own the houses you and your brother are living in, or do you and your brother (what's the name on the deed, in other words)? How would you going to an apartment while your brother moves into your old house work? What happens to the other house? Is your brother living alone too? How many bedrooms are in these houses?

One thing I'm seeing in your posts, Rodahn, is that you don't have a clear definition in your head of need vs want. Organic and whole foods are not a need, food is (so buy cheaper "normal" produce ~or try NephyrS' suggestion on strategic organic shopping~ for a while until you can afford the luxury of whatever you want). A gym membership is not a need to be healthy, it just makes it easier (and 40 bucks a month is expensive--I pay a smidge over half that).

You've got time, so try an experiment or two; Try buying normal groceries for a month and see how much lower your bill is. Try working out at home for a month and see if you really, really need that gym membership. If you get good results, then axe or modify that expense. Don't be afraid to mix it up, don't settle, always be on the lookout for getting better value for what you spend.

By all means, shuffle the numbers to try to preserve a luxury if you can make it work...but you have to keep the bottom line as your ultimate goal, and for you, eventually, $40 is going to be a lot more precious that it is now.

If your brother simply isn't willing to adapt to your new economic realities and consider sharing expenses with you, and the job market is as bad as DE says (and I have no reason not to believe him), then look at your house in a whole new way. Each spare bedroom is a potential extra $300 or more per month in your pocket. Maybe, if you work it right, you could replace the money your dad pays with money your tenant(s) pay you. Make being a landlord your second job. Yeah, you won't be alone in your house, but its cheaper. And maybe you can leverage that for a while into getting yourself into a better situation where you don't need the extra income anymore.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

Yeah, I don't think organic/whole foods are the problem, either. I know there's a premium there, but I'm not going to argue about the merits -- any way you turn it, $400-500/mo. doesn't make any sense. Rodhan, do you still have your last grocery receipt? Or failing that, could you sketch out what a typical week's meal plan looks like?

Basic rules of thumb for household budgets:

Housing: 1/4 to 1/3 of take-home pay
Food: 15% of take-home pay (this includes everything: restaurants + groceries)

At $8/hr, and assuming 40/week, that gives you $1280/mo gross. Take-home pay is likely in the ballpark of $1280 * .72 = $921.60. Based on that, you should be spending no more than $230-$310/mo on rent/mortgage, and no more than $140/mo on food.

To be blunt (I mean well), the crux of the problem is that you have food and rent budgeted as if you were making $25/hr, not $8. I think you realize that $700/mo rent is never going to work with your income, but spending half of your take-home pay on food isn't going to work, either.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

I find that the 1/4-1/3 income on rent can be a bit difficult, it just depends on what the rest of your budget is.

Between rent and utilities I spend closer to half of my income, but we spend very little on entertainment. When it comes to choosing between an area with frequent deaths by semi-auto weapons and not, I choose to cut in other areas.

That said, it's only a temporary thing for me, until my wife starts grad school this spring and we're living on two incomes, which makes it much more usual (1/3-1/4th income).

It's all about laying out what you have, and then doing as much as you can with that- absolute necessities first, followed by the rest.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Doctor says I need to limit carbs and starches as well sources of cholesterol, while increasing fiber, & protein.

Beans are cheap, but they are a starch. Carbs are cheap, but they raise my blood-sugar. I love eggs, and they are filled with protein, but they are also cholesterol-laden. And non-dairy protein -- well, meat/fish is expensive, no matter which way you cut it.

One thing I have been doing is buying more soup. At Kroger, I can get those big cans of Progresso or Campbell's Chunky for $1.38 EA. And there are a billion different varieties. So feasibly I could live off soup. But there are still lunches I need to bring with me to work every day for 5 days/week, as well snacks and beverages. I've tried skipping meals, but the doc recommended against that too, because it kicks your body into starvation mode and royally screws with your blood chemistry. So, I really have to eat breakfast lunch and dinner, which also gets expensive.

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My father and I both own my house, my father and brother both own his house (both sets of names on the deeds). Brother lives alone except on the days he gets his daughter, and if I were to move, he'd sell his house and probably move into mine for the extra space. Both my and my brother's houses have 2 bedrooms, although mine has an upstairs that runs the length of the house (so technically 3 bedrooms).



Perhaps, but it just seems like it's harder to find healthy non-organic food.

As for the gym, maybe I don't necessarily need it, per se, but it's much better to get my cardio is a temperature-controlled building than walking outside in the snow/ice or pouring rain. And weight/resistance training requires the purchasing of larger sets of weights, which defeats the purpose. Unless I am missing something obvious when it comes to exercise technique.



I kinda tried a food purchasing experiment this past shopping day, and cut down to my minimum expenditure range. I tried getting only the whole foods that I absolutely liked, as well as the aforementioned soup thing. I suppose I could avoid the whole foods section altogether next time and see if that nets me anything. I still don't see how $100 for an entire month is possible, tho.



I'm not mean enough to be a landlord. At most, I'd rent to friends or people I trust. Only catch there is -- I'd also be at their whim. A project that I could let slide with just me living here, I would have to get done quickly with someone else living here, and I also would have to stay home from my primary job if some form of manual labor was required.

Really, I don't mind moving to something other than a house.

Ideal/Best case scenario = I find a full time position before my father retires and am able to maintain my current lifestyle (or better) with my taking over full financial control.

Worst case scenario = I'm on the streets

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Typical plan for me:

Breakfast = usually a deli sandwich (from about $1.50-$3.00 EA x 5) or something fast because I often eat at work as soon as I arrive.

Lunch = some sort of frozen meal like and organic burrito ($3-4 EA) or some gluten-free frozen meal ($3-4 EA) (x5)

(Occasionally I'll have a homemade sandwich for either breakfast or lunch -- $2.00 loaf of bread, 2 for $7.00 Italian meats, $3.50 package of deli turkey)

Dinner = Varies widely -- lately soups ($1.38 EA x 4-5), sometimes roasted chickens or frozen lasagnas (~$9 for each), sometimes spaghetti + sauce (total $4.00)

Beverages = diet soda ($4.50 12-pack), Water ($8.00 for a large package, lasts generally two weeks), fruit punch cooler packets ($2.00 per box, thinking of switching to just these for non-water beverages), peach flavored tea ($1.50 per can x 4), milk ($3/carton or individual packs $3 per 3 packs x 2).

Snacks = Chicken salad + cracker snack box ($1.60-ish per box x 5), fruits and veggies (these can be expensive -- $9-10 per trip), chips + salsa ($4-5), , small form of sweets ($3-4)

Anything else I see right off I generally do not get on a regular basis.



Yeah something will have to give. I am hoping to land a full-time position, or find a cheaper place to live + cutting expenses.

You could always rent out a room in someone else's house.
Provided you could put up with all the drama and have somewhere safe to go everytime the wind blows, trailer parks usually have a few really nice places for cheap..then you wouldn't have to alter the rest of your lifestyle.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Rodahn, I'm confused as to what you are buying "organic". When I think of healthy/organic food, I do not think of canned soup and frozen lasagna. Stathol's suggestion to take up cooking your meals has real merit. Heating pre-packaged meals is not cooking...and in fact can be pricier than cooking. Pre-packaged means convenience, and you pay a premium for it. You not only pay for the ingredients, but the labor put into making, packaging, and distribution of that meal. Hell, you could make a large quantity of your own soup, put it in ziploc containers (or even bags if you're really cheap) and freeze it to nuke as needed. It'd be cheaper per serving than canned, and may even be tastier. I've done it myself. Get a crock pot and there's almost no work, too.

Also, I'm hearing excuses on renting out the spare bedrooms. Not mean enough to be a landlord? It's a simple business transaction. Get a written lease, tell them to live up to their end of the bargain. If you screen your renters properly, this may not be an issue (but these are human beings, YMMV. That's reality). How often are you making repairs on this house? If this house is the most expensive purchase you will ever make in your entire life, why would you put off fixing it, if only to maintain its value? If routine maintenance is too much for you, then its time to get out. No offense, Rodahn, but I get the impression that you are a bit afraid of renting out the rooms, and an apartment is not as scary. But you can't afford your own apartment by yourself (based on Stathol's analysis of your income), barring a better job. Renting out those 2 spare bedrooms seems to me like a better option.

Keep in mind, if you do move out into an apartment like you seem to be planning...you still gotta sell the empty house. How fast are houses turning over in WV? Perhaps a better option is for you both to keep your houses, but still move in together, while the other house is rented out. Everybody wins...the one who rents out their house gets enough money to pay the mortgage (maybe even more) while the other brother gets a trustworthy roommate to split expenses with.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel

Soup (that you don't make yourself) is full of sodium.

You can eat low/no carbs and starches. I pretty much lived on fresh broccoli, baby spinach, and some lean meat (skinless chicken/turkey or lean beef), and occasionally a little low fat cottage cheese or skim milk with a scoop of WPI before bed, for about 6 months this summer. Watch the local paper for coupons, go in with he rest of the family and buy in bulk at the warehouse store. Eat with the family when you can.

Food, Clothing, and Shelter are the only necessities in your life Rodahn. Transportation beyond a bicycle also counts as a luxury. Stathol gives solid advice. I'd likely be far more spartan in my recommendations.

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Rodhan, I think you're considerably overestimating how much health benefit is in organic foods and considerably underestimating how healthy you can eat cooking with regular ingrediants.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I think folks are considerably over-thinking his reason for posting. He knows he'll need to tighten his belt, he knows his father has been generous and he knows he needs to man up and pull his weight.

I'm pretty sure most would let others do for us if we had the chance. Seems basic human nature. He's just not looking forward to the changes, from how I'm reading it.

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In time, this too shall pass.

ROFL, but Taskiss, that's what we DO around here!
If we didn't, we'd all be bored to death!

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

One thing I noticed on your food analysis is a comment about beans is that they are high in starch. The thing is that it is primarily a fiber carbohydrate and has a very low glycemic index. They are also high in potassium. So unless you are in kidney failure, beans are very healthy and can be very tasty.

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

That, and if you get dry beans you can make your own mixes for variety.

Bean soups can be delicious!

And never underestimate cabbage- it's a good green, often very cheap for its weight, and you can do lots of things with it- boiled cabbage, cabbage casseroles, cole slaw, etc. It's also good wedged and eaten straight.

The key with cheap vegetables is to find things that are less popular: Cauliflower is often cheaper than broccoli, etc.

Also, check out the "dirty dozen/clean 15" lists, for things that are most and least heavily pesticide contaminated. The clean 15 are pretty much safe to eat non-organic, and the dirty dozen should be bought organic when possible.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

And with sufficient cabbage and beans, you can decrease your gas bill.

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ROFLMAO!!!

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Exactly!

That's how you know your diet is working

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Apparently any post not displaying some level of tacit approval and compassion for laziness and idiocy is now a warnable offense, and any and all posts made on any topic should not be in any way disagreeable.

To those ends I apologize. Rhodan, by all means please don't think you've done anything wrong, or that you have caused any of your own problems. I know you'll achieve personal growth and future success regardless of your unwillingness to be self-critical, and having see the error of my own ways I would like to put myself forth as your champion. Furthermore, your complaints should be found to be of equal merit with those made by posters who have used this forum to painfully voice their concerns over spousal abuse, loss of a family member or child, or discovering a disease or disability and are in no way offensive to my sensibilities.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Pssst! Ryry! Dude! Your inner dialogue is showing. Tuck it up man, tuck it up!

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

Not to mention complaints about tests, papers, peers, sinus infections, TV set ups, household appliances, and any number of other, less major issues.

Not showing compassion isn't a warning offense. Not showing compassion through personal attacks outside of Hellfire is.

If you don't have compassion, I don't think any of us care. Just don't comment in the thread, don't keep reading it, and move on. Is that so hard to do?

I think there are plenty of people on this board who have made mistakes or could stand to be stronger, better, etc... That doesn't mean when they come here and realize they need to grow up that you smack them over the head and tell them it's too late, they should have done it years ago. It means you encourage them because they're moving in the right direction.

Oh, and there's a difference between pure criticism and constructive criticism. Telling someone "you screwed up and it's too late to fix it" isn't constructive criticism. The other critical posts in this thread have had something to offer the OP.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

No, no. I fully support everything Rhodan has done. He's put himself on a path to success.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

That's the problem, I'm not sure I could put up with someone else's drama, especially a stranger. But again, at this point, I'm not completely ruling out anything.

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I should have clarified -- my food purchasing is split between whole/organic and regular foods. Also, it's hard to really nail down a set buying pattern, because it varies so much from week to week.

I do, however, like the idea of trying to shop for the entire month with buying regular, cheaper food and depending less on pre-packaged stuff.



Sadly, the house needs several repairs (roof needs replacing relatively soon, brick work outside needs redone, carpeting needs ripped up, central heating unit needs optimized, and one of the bathrooms needs its toilet fixed, oh and some re-tiling needs done, siding replacement as well). Main roadblock: Money. I know that my father is capable of funding these repairs, but I do not want him to shoulder that responsibility on top of what he is already doing for me financially. My name is on the deed, too, so I see it as just as much my responsibility. I take full blame for letting these things slide.

As for renting out, I'm not saying it's not a valid option, just that it's one I am very hesitant about implementing. Actually, a couple of my friends have expressed interest in rooming in my house, so perhaps it is something I can explore when it comes down to the brass tasks.



That's an option as well, and like I said earlier, perhaps it is one I could discuss with my brother again.

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WPI? As for the other stuff, I am already eating more veggies and lean meats. Just trying to fine tune the new diet.

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True. One big plus is that my car is paid off, so just gas and insurance. A car payment on top of all this would be awful.

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Perhaps, which is why I'm going to try buying more regular ingredients next shopping trip.

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This, Exactly. Unfortunately, some decided to launch into the offensive with childish insults. Still, the actual useful advise is much appreciated

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Squirrel and NephryS, thanks for the advice. Hard to ever settle on what foods are actually good, since dietary guidelines change so much.

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This only proves that you have completely misinterpreted (or simply not read) what I am trying to convey here.

See Taskiss' earlier reply, but as I said in my original post, I understand fully that I will have to suck it up and start making my own way in some areas. The OP was simply a "getting it off my chest" declaration.

I am not incapable of self-criticism or change. I am probably one of the most self-critical people you will ever meet. I fully accept that I have screwed up in some areas of my life (big shock, so has everyone else at some point) and taken the easy path when I should not have.

And I in no way am saying that my problems are more important than those of others with far more serious concerns. Why you are choosing to blow this topic out of proportion is beyond me.

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Anyway, all told -- I need a better job with a higher income

I realize that living alone in my current house is most likely not going to be feasible even with a better-paying job (unless I find a substantially better job), but a modest apartment would be doable.

I amazed it took as long as it did before someone said roommate.

You can cut costs, increase your income or do both. (ie second job, non-premium cable). When cutting costs don't get all Greek Austerity measure on yourself though or you will rebel against yourself and splurge. Cut costs incrementally.

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Rodahn, you are quite possibly talking yourself into a disadvantageous situation with the "modest apartment". It's simply NOT your most efficient solution, but I think it keeps you being independent and alone, which I think makes it so much more attractive to you. Take the fear out of your thinking process and look at it rationally.

Let's leave the better-paying job thing alone for a moment. If you land one, great, you can re-adjust your plans. But the reality is you bring home probably ~$200-$250ish per week (correct me if I'm wrong). A $500 per month apartment is a big chunk of money for you to spend on your current pay. Simply put, most people who bring home that kind of money live with other people to share expenses and improve their standard of living. If you are going to insist on an apartment, your best bet is to move into a place with 1 or 2 other people. But that will defeat your goal of living on your own. Forget that goal, you don't make enough money right now. Plus, you will spend money one way or another to move to an apartment, period. Can you afford the deposits/expenses involved?

But if you keep the house and rent out the extra bedrooms to friends, you won't have to spend that cash. Hell, if you work it right, you might be able to use the extra money involved to protect your investment in the house to make some of those repairs. For that matter, if you Huck Finn it, you may get your tenants to help you make the repairs and/or do some or all the little chores that come with home ownership (think sweat equity, or "you'll pay cheaper rent if you do X, Mr Tenant!"). You could feasibly reduce your personal "keeping a roof over your head" expense to ZERO by paying your mortgage with the rent your friends pay you. You may even be able to improve your cash flow enough so that you won't need that "better-paying" job.

Yeah, you may need to spend some to fix up the house. But you'll have to do that anyways if you want to have any real hope of selling it as quickly as you can in this market. Why buy a fixer-upper when there are immaculate, well kept homes at the same price point?

Point #2- Let's say you move out of the house...and it doesn't sell and languishes on the market. What's your dad going to do then? What if you have to short-sale it? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want that on my credit report...would you ask your dad to raid his retirement funds to make up the difference? Or even worse, what if your dad can no longer pay it, and the bank takes it over? You're fine in your apartment, but can your dad's credit take a foreclosure (maybe even 2?).

Seriously, Rodahn, don't discount keeping the house so easily. It's not that scary, and if you work it right, it could be your best bet.

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Women are from Hoboken, men are from Trenton. ~ Jimmy Kimmel