The Glade 4.0

Folks have spoken up in the past, and from my perspective pretty much every liberal poster is treated at a minimum rudely in Hellfire a vast majority of the time. Even RD who far and away is the most civil and well written/spoken poster gets ridiculed. Certainly I will agree that Monty is handling that situation far "worse" than others and I by no means am some saint who never gets pissed and says something I shouldn't. So for my part, I have completely given up on having any kind of rational discourse in Hellfire. I post only occasionally these days, and generally then only to try and provide a counter view to some of what gets posted here, or to ask a clarifying question so I better understand someone's viewpoint.

Now before any posts about bleeding heard liberals start, I'm not looking for sympathy or an apology or anything really. I'm making an observation, and explaining my views. Nothing more.

This would be opinion. I like RD but I've seen him go on the attack on occasion without being provoked, just as you have. But the VAST majority of the time, I think it's pretty even handed(Monty excluded).

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

I would say that Noggel and Stathol are the most civil...

My context was of the liberal posters, otherwise I agree.

Aizle, I would suggest most "rude" postings are simply curt and straightforward. Not everything need be buffered with unnecessary plesantries. That said, there have been rude things said in the past; however, the generally are only provoked after repeated ignorance and lack of willingness to think ideas through to conclusion, mispresentation of other viewpoints, and simply the Cartman defense "Screw you guys, I'm going home.".

But let's look at Monty's behavior. There isn't even an attempt at discussion, just a straight path towards enmity involving slinging terms around like Craziness, "Double Think", "Projection" and more words being used technically incorrectly to borderline insult people. No one else does this, or even comes close. I don't think it's a matter of "worse" but a whole different mode of thought.

Whereas other people come to discuss topics where we know we won't sway anyone's thought, Monty's post involve him (in his own mind) starting out right and everything else wrong and the issue never being discussed. Just poop throwing and screaming louder than the other "bad" people.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

The threshold of what constitutes rude on this board is different for posters of different political persuasions. It has been this way since Sunmoon ran the board. This board has always had a severe conservative bias, usually towards the most radical of conservative outlooks.

Rafael, if you are currently a conservative supporter, if you are backing up the screamers at the town hall meetings and the assault weapon-carrying "protesters", then you have absolutely no grounds to accuse me of not thinking something through.

You don't want to discuss topics, Rafael. You want an echo chamber, and you want to perhaps tussle to see who stand on top of Mount Conservative this week. If you wanted to rationally discuss topics, you would stand with me in dismissing outright the insanity that comes from the right on issues like Health Care reform, Global Climate Change, and other issues that conservatives have said "reality be damned" to.

If we could come to common ground on simple objective facts, we could possibly have a rational discussion. However, until conservatives *stop* supporting Captain AR-15, *stop* running around screaming "socialist indoctrination" when the president wants to tell kids to stay in school, and *start* calling other conservatives on their bullshit when *they* decide to ride the Glenn Beck train, no rational discourse can be had.

I get accused of poisoning the well a lot, but I promise you, the well has been a bubbling cesspit since people started to promote asinine Birther theories on the Glade. The second "he pals around with terrorists" became the Gospel According to Palin, the conservatives on this board absolutely lost any claim they had on rational thought, discourse, and reasonable debate.

It's been getting steadily worse ever since. So don't accuse me of not thinking things through. It rings false. Don't try and lay the blame for a poisoned well on me, because you guys have been pissing in it for a long while now (really, since the Iraq War began).

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

And our point is proved for the 1,349,543rd time.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

No, but your response is a ringing endorsement of my comments. You don't add anything resembling rational discourse to the glade. Mostly you operate as some sort of venerated bully, whipping your e-peen out any time one of us "libs" gets a bit too uppity for your taste.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

ALOLOLOL!!!

Nitefox, dear, are you whipping your e-peen at the democrats again?

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No, I just call you out on your BS as I have always. You are a troll, small, little person with no integrity. You screw this forum up for everyone. It was GREAT when you weren't around. Then your first post on this new board, you attack DFK for no reason then continue with your usual pattern. Lump everyone here into a group you want us to be in and then stand back and think you didn't do anything wrong. You are an *******, everyone knows it but you. Just leave this forum and everything will be fine.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Apparently I am!

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Well when you two have finished deciding whose is bigger, put your toys away and come back inside, its time for lunch.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

No, you just spit hate, and eventually you resort to threats of violence. It's the response of an immature punk. You don't care about rational discourse. You care about pissing off "libs". That's all.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

.............................

Monty, seriously man, you need to cool down and take a break.

Monty,

YOU'RE the one who started with the first ad hominem attack in these new forums. Not to mention you NEVER care about rational discourse. You shouldn't attack people for pointing out your B.S. Well you can attack them, but it doesn't make any sense.

Nope. That's what you want to believe of course. But then again, you fall back on old arguments of people getting upset. Yes, let's remind everyone that a few years back after you had called me a liar and coward, I said if you said that to my face, I'd take you to task for it. Yes, I got upset that a cowardly moron such as you said those things to me and I said more than I should have. I also apologized for it to you and to the entire glade. But of course you can't let that go. But hey, if we are bring back things from the past, especially when the concern violence, let's talk about how you wanted Bush dead! Oooooo...how much fun did you and I have with that? Loads huh?

Really Monty, let's keep this in the present ok? No on wants to deal with all that crap again. Just leave this forum man. No one, not even people on your side, want you here. You bring nothing but tension, strife and anger to everyone here.

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"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

First of all, I didn't really take place in the Birther discussion, because I don't understand the nuance of the law surrounding the whole issue. While I do care about the President maintaining a transparent office and being Constitutional, I didn't think this was a subject worth approaching because it was buried in nuance with which I'm not faimiliar.

As for captain AR15, I didn't support what he did, but I do support his right to do it. There was nothing itimidating about what he did, anymore than a man who is 6'6" and 280+ "hulking" about with protest picket signs or what-have you.

As for this:



It's a complete fallacy. Even if I did "stand with you", your logic is circular. I cannot be right unless I side with you, and if I do not side with you, I'm wrong? You are pre-determining the arguments against those specific cases to be wrong rather than discussing their merits and flaws.

I'm done with this bullshit. The only way this would ever work out is if we met and either got wasted and into a fight or just into a fight. Since I don't drink and since neither one of us is going to bother wasting the time and money on such an idea, I'm done. Seriously.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

For someone who went into a tirade about the use of such a racially loaded, and insulting word, you sure do resemble what you derided. I was going to make this same point when Van Jones used the word and your absolutely lack of comment about the insult, but this says so much more.

The medium of text only communication tends to obscure nuance. That thought should be foremost on everyone's mind when reading and responding, but I am well aware that it tends to be forgotten. With the notable exception of Monty, for my part, I do not detect any intentional discourtesy in most exchanges, regardless of any poster's affiliation. But needing to go around sprinkling a post with smilies and placatory phrases is a cure worse than the disease.

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My tolerance for crazy right wing crap is significantly lower than yours, I think. Not all ideas are created equal, and just because fox news says something doesn't make it a fact. Until the conservatives on this board abandon the insane, paranoid crap they have been latching on to since the primary season, there's no reason or advantage to kindness.

Look, I am seeing more moderate posting from some of the members of the board, which is awesome. However, any time someone just tosses something utterly untrue out there as absolute fact, they need to be harshly rebuked.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

This is why this entire board seems like a herd of stampeding Dick-A-Lo to you.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones

Indeed. Or at least, for the most part.

Here and there we all get agitated (including myself of course) and say something rude, crass, or flat out derogatory. This may be in response to anything from the lack of nuance to an insult (real or perceived) to simply having a shitty day. Whatever the cause, it generally ripples for a while but then dies out.

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“The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine

Stop right there. There is no argument when it comes to things like Death Panels, and Kenyan birth certificates, Obama's legitimacy as president or pulling the plug on grandma. We can discuss rationally the pros and cons of our current health care, proposals to reform it, or leave it as it is - but the second people start dragging in the BS, that has to be done away with. I don't want to pre determine the argument, I want to dismiss the paranoid delusional bullshit that get tossed about as "fact" here.

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It feels like all the people who want limited government really just want government limited to Republicans.
---The Daily Show

If I label goat semen as cottage cheese, it's still goat semen.

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"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones