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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:34 am 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
If Schwarzenegger where to have run for president would he have to justify his citizenship to anyone?


No, he wouldn't. Not if Obama's lawyers were working for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:05 am 
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DFK! wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
If Schwarzenegger where to have run for president would he have to justify his citizenship to anyone?


No, he wouldn't. Not if Obama's lawyers were working for him.



Only if you wanted to ignore the fact he was born in Austria. (quoting the bastion of both right and left leaning sites! =P)

[url]http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000216/[/url]
Unless you were confusing Arnold's eligibility to run for Senate or House of Representatives.

[url]http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html[/url]
If you're going to be involved in government in the United States, citizenship is a must. To be a Senator or Representative, you must be a citizen of the United States. To be President, not only must you be a citizen, but you must also be natural-born.

He would qualify for President on 2 of 3 things needed....Being over the age of 35, and being in the U.S. as a resident for more than 14 years (see section 1, 2nd paragraph on the right hand side)[url]http://ratify.constitutioncenter.org/constitution/constitution.pdf[/url].

I would've assumed you knew your U.S. Constitution better DFK! =)


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:39 am 
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Xerxes wrote:
DFK! wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
If Schwarzenegger where to have run for president would he have to justify his citizenship to anyone?


No, he wouldn't. Not if Obama's lawyers were working for him.



Only if you wanted to ignore the fact he was born in Austria. (quoting the bastion of both right and left leaning sites! =P)

[url]http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000216/[/url]
Unless you were confusing Arnold's eligibility to run for Senate or House of Representatives.

[url]http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html[/url]
If you're going to be involved in government in the United States, citizenship is a must. To be a Senator or Representative, you must be a citizen of the United States. To be President, not only must you be a citizen, but you must also be natural-born.

He would qualify for President on 2 of 3 things needed....Being over the age of 35, and being in the U.S. as a resident for more than 14 years (see section 1, 2nd paragraph on the right hand side)[url]http://ratify.constitutioncenter.org/constitution/constitution.pdf[/url].

I would've assumed you knew your U.S. Constitution better DFK! =)


No no, I know it just fine.

The point is that nobody has standing to challenge his status as a natural born citizen, according to attorneys representing our President.


Edit:

Without standing to challenge the Governator, he could run, be elected, and serve his term without having to really deal with a challenge, because his lawyers would have everything tossed out.

As we hear from so many lawyers, TV shows, and books: it's not what you know, it's what you can prove in court.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:54 am 
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Maybe they do or don't , I was just surprised that you had used Arnold as a (bad) example was all. Especially since it was well know he had acknowledged (on camera too I believe) that he wasn't born in the U.S.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:57 am 
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Umm...no. Arnold was the perfect example. I think you are missing the point, or I am missing the point of your post.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:00 am 
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Aegnor wrote:
Umm...no. Arnold was the perfect example. I think you are missing the point, or I am missing the point of your post.


Word.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:07 am 
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Yes, that's all true. The problem, however, is that if no one has standing to challenge him on those qualifications then they really don't matter. Ok, he wasn't born in the U.S., runs, and wins. Now what? Whose job is it to prevent him taking office?

One could just as easily say that Schwarznegger was born in California, and here's his birth certificate! Oh, wait, you think it's a forgery? Well, you're a birther! It doesn't matter what the government of Austria or relatives say, he was born here! The burden of proof is on you to prove he was born outside the U.S.! Innocent until proven guilty, right!

Well, that's pretty absurd, and anyone trying to prove Schwarznegger was born in the U.S. facesa mountain at least as high as those claiming Obama was born in Kenya. but here's the rub:

"There has to be credible evidence to challange Schwarznegger's eligability in court! You can't force him to give up his rights by [insert X requirement to refute charges here]."

The argument is nothing more thn an attempt to create a catch-22 by which the case can never be heard in court. USing Schwarznegger only illustrates how absurd it is. The claim that there needs to be credible evidence in order to go to court completely ignores the fact that court is where the credibility of evidence is tested!

We don't test legal questions in the media or by online posting. Posting something for people to see, or letting reporters handle the evidence only shows that you have something you claim is evidence.

The bottom line is that rather than simply attack the weakness of the evidence against Obama, his supporters have gone the route of trying to claim challenging him at all is illegitimate. Amazingly, it wasn't ilelgitimate against McCain. One wonders how long this attitude will alst when its another Republican.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Leshani wrote:
fun fact: do a little searching on McCain's birth and you'll find there are all sort's of groups that were poised and planning an assault on his eligibility.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/12 ... /58/534894


Also of note: The members of the U.S. military are held to a higher standard of proof then the man, who Commands them?


Want to know what is fun about that.. the article you linked proves that those people are idiots... they linked a wiki on John McCain as proof that he was ineligible to run for president, as he was not born in the United States. But both of his parents were American born citizens and he was born on August 29, 1936 at Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone. And it has already been established that a military base and an embassy are both considered US soil for those born on them.

I would use this base to determine that the Daily KOS does not bother to use validity in their arguments. And as such any arguments that come from those who use them as a news source are also untrustworthy and not based on facts or validity.

Awesome thanks for that Link Leshani

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Monte wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
If Schwarzenegger where to have run for president would he have to justify his citizenship to anyone?


Actually, it would be a moot point. We know that he was not born in the United States. Just like we know that Obama *was* born in the United States.



Ahh you know it, but according to Obama you would have no legal grounding to call it into account, and that is the crux of most of the arguments here. I am damn sure Obama was born in Hawaii, but the idea that the citizens of this country can not check to see if their elected officials meet the requirements to fulfill the office, to which they are elected, is horrifying.


I agree completely.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Presidential Oath of Office wrote:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


Schwartzenegger Oath of Office wrote:
"I do swear 'dat I will fait'fully execute 'da office of 'da President of 'da United States, and execute all of 'da flabby sissies who lack discipline; and I will to 'da best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend 'da Constitution of 'da United State by putting it into 'da choppa' and driving over all 'da bad guys with my Humvee and shooting 'dem with an Uzi."

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:25 pm 
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to continue with that same line of thought DFK!
Ahnold wrote:
I was elected to lead not to read!

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