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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Aizle wrote:


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Falls
Falls account for more than a third of all fatal injuries. Take steps to prevent such accidents around your house by eliminating obstacles and hazards that increase the risks of tripping, skidding, or stumbling.

Obviously won't kill me.


Poisonings
Poisoning deaths despite all the precautions we take still total to millions per year. Many of the victims are under 6 years of age. Poisoning deaths can be avoided in many cases by limiting the access of young children to medications and household chemicals (cleaners and detergents). Make sure you know the number to your local poison control center in case of an emergency.

Obviously won't kill me.

Fires
Fires cause both smoke inhalation and flame related deaths. Avoid keeping flammable items near open flames and give plenty of space to electronic equipment to cool down. Never leave the stove unattended and avoid overloading electrical circuits to decrease fire hazard risks in your home. Make sure your smoke detector works so you can be alerted to the first signs of danger.

Very unlikely. It is much more likely that all homes in developed countries will be made fire-retardant.

Suffocation and Choking
Choking on food only accounts for a third of these deaths. Young children are susceptible to choking or suffocating on a variety of small or common household objects. Take precautions to baby proof your home such accidents.
Impossible. Can use mobile device to text for help, or gadget/robot in home will save me.

Drowning
It only takes a couple inches of water for drowning to occur. Youngsters are most susceptible to these accidents, so never leave a child around standing water, pools or tubs. Adults should also avoid falling asleep while taking a bath.
Obviously won't kill me.

Remaining Causes of Fatal Accidents Within the Home
Firearm deaths are substantial but typically classified as homicides or suicides even if an accident within the home. The discharge of a firearm within the home causes of hundreds of deaths annually that could be prevented with proper fire arm safety.
Obviously won't kill me. I don't own a firearm


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:38 pm 
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LOL, you're just being a retard now Lex.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
LOL, you're just being a retard now Lex.


You didn't know that he's invincible?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Sasandra wrote:
most people aren't however strong willed enough to cope with that though and need something to cling onto so as not to go crazy and that's where religion came from

I think it's really sad that you believe this.

Sasandra wrote:
the most moral people I've known were Atheists and most of the least moral people in history were religious people, usually doing those horrible acts of immorality in the name of their god.

I also think that you see what you want to see.

Maybe some do find a measure of cmfort in faith (personally, I find it to be a grab-bag), but you seem to find comfort in telling yourself that you're superior to an entire group of people on the basis of their beliefs. They're weak, you're strong. They're immoral, and you're righteous. That's your narrative, and it's just sad. It's sickening when Christians or members of any other religion do this, but it's jus as sickening when it's done by atheists or agnostics. The only purpose is to dehumanize the "others".


In an unrelated note, this thread makes me think of this song:



Edit: grief is complex, and so is faith. Don't be so quick to assume that it's always comforting, or a crutch, or that it always makes life easier. That's a shallow platitude that utterly ignores the human element.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Well, everyone has their coping mechanisms. As I mentioned, there is no shame for the person with an injured knee using a crutch.

As for her other point: it's not just what people choose to see, Stathol. Regardless of the primary motivators, nobody ever started a war or committed an attrocity in the name of atheism. Yes, atheists like Stalin and mow did commit attrocities, but the fact that they were atheists was only tangentally related (if that much) to what they did. They had other religious-like beliefs and ideals in place of religion which led them on their path. On the other hand, people of almost every religion have committed horrific acts in the name of their god or religious beliefs, and still do so today. Of course, this isn't really fair. It is belief itself, idealism if you will, that moves people to act, for good or evil. "Soft atheism" (I prefer to call it a flavor of agnosticism) is more defined as a lack of belief -- of course it doesn't move people to act. It is difficult to go off on some damn fool idealistic crusade when one has no idealism upon which to crusade, and not all ideals are religious in nature, so just maybe singling out religion is unfair.

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Last edited by Talya on Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Taskiss wrote:
And there's going to be a cure for murder?

I'm thinking not.


You think that Lydiaa will be murdered?

Given enough time, sure. You're argument is folks will live virtually forever... Any probability of being murdered at all would almost surely approach 1

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:35 pm 
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A few years ago a guy here in Sacramento, in great shape, late 50s, went backpacking with his family. They found a spot to camp for the night, he was watching the sun set while someone else prepared dinner. When dinner was ready he was gone, passed away suddenly, while sitting, relaxing, and watching a gorgeous sunset. Autopsy was inconclusive about cause of death. No trauma, no poison or allergy traces, no signs of disease, no drug traces, there was no rational cause for his death. He just died, heart stopped, didn't even look like a heart attack.

He just died, for no apparent reason. His son said he had a great day and was looking forward to the next day's hike.

Sometimes people just die. I'm sure if they knew what to look for they might have found why he died. Since there was no crime involved and the usual suspects were eliminated, it was listed as natural causes, whatever that means.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
A few years ago a guy here in Sacramento, in great shape, late 50s, went backpacking with his family. They found a spot to camp for the night, he was watching the sun set while someone else prepared dinner. When dinner was ready he was gone, passed away suddenly, while sitting, relaxing, and watching a gorgeous sunset. Autopsy was inconclusive about cause of death. No trauma, no poison or allergy traces, no signs of disease, no drug traces, there was no rational cause for his death. He just died, heart stopped, didn't even look like a heart attack.

He just died, for no apparent reason. His son said he had a great day and was looking forward to the next day's hike.

Sometimes people just die. I'm sure if they knew what to look for they might have found why he died. Since there was no crime involved and the usual suspects were eliminated, it was listed as natural causes, whatever that means.


In the future we will have amazing diagnostic tools to prevent instances like these from happening. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll do a full body scan while you're in the shower.

edit: We already have amazing diagnostic tools, but they will get much better.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Personally if someone decides to murder me, I want to be drowned in warm chocolate... just saying :neko:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Milk or Dark? :D

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Milk... since I don't have to worry about weight and dark's too bitter to eat in big mouthfuls... Preferabily with bits of chocolate fudge... mm...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:57 am 
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Talya wrote:
Well, everyone has their coping mechanisms. As I mentioned, there is no shame for the person with an injured knee using a crutch.

As for her other point: it's not just what people choose to see, Stathol. Regardless of the primary motivators, nobody ever started a war or committed an attrocity in the name of atheism. Yes, atheists like Stalin and mow did commit attrocities, but the fact that they were atheists was only tangentally related (if that much) to what they did. They had other religious-like beliefs and ideals in place of religion which led them on their path. On the other hand, people of almost every religion have committed horrific acts in the name of their god or religious beliefs, and still do so today. Of course, this isn't really fair. It is belief itself, idealism if you will, that moves people to act, for good or evil. "Soft atheism" (I prefer to call it a flavor of agnosticism) is more defined as a lack of belief -- of course it doesn't move people to act. It is difficult to go off on some damn fool idealistic crusade when one has no idealism upon which to crusade, and not all ideals are religious in nature, so just maybe singling out religion is unfair.



Apparently you are not familiar with Communist revolutions.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:17 am 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Apparently you are not familiar with Communist revolutions.


Evidently you didn't read anything I wrote.

Quote:
Regardless of the primary motivators, nobody ever started a war or committed an attrocity in the name of atheism. Yes, atheists like Stalin and mow did commit attrocities, but the fact that they were atheists was only tangentally related (if that much) to what they did.


The communist revolutions were started by some atheists. They were not done in the name of atheism.

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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:07 am 
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Even so, you should definitely review China's Cultural Revolution. Atrocities were most definitely committed specifically for the purpose of purging religion. To an extent, the same thing happened in the Soviet Union, just less precipitously and overtly.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:18 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Even so, you should definitely review China's Cultural Revolution. Atrocities were most definitely committed specifically for the purpose of purging religion. To an extent, the same thing happened in the Soviet Union, just less precipitously and overtly.


Once again, this was done to further a communist agenda, not an atheist agenda. It was not done in the name of atheism, but rather to further communism. The atheism aspect was incidental to it. Communist governments see religion as a threat, much like private enterprise and entrenched aristocracy.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:30 am 
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You're splitting hairs. This is like saying (Godwins!) that the holocaust wasn't wasn't really antisemitic, because it was really being done in the name of Nazism. In a sense, this may even true, but it's beside the point because Nazism itself incorporated antisemitism.

Simply put, an "atheist agenda" was a part of Communist agenda, as it existed in China at that point in time. People were killed and many historical buildings and artifacts were destroyed specifically because of this tenant. That the policy of atheism was part of a larger whole doesn't alter that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:32 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Simply put, an "atheist agenda" was a part of Communist agenda, as it existed in China at that point in time. People were killed and many historical buildings and artifacts were destroyed specifically because of this tenant. That the policy of atheism was part of a larger whole doesn't alter that.


Once again, it wasn't an attempt at stamping out belief. It was an attack on the wealth-holding organizations known as religions. It was not because of atheism, but because of communism. You are mixing cause and effect. It's a night vs. day difference between that and, say, an inquisition or protestant reformation. And in the end, they didn't even have the fortitude to carry it out. Buddhist and Taoist temples mostly remained untouched. The religious organizations existed then and still exist, for the same reason Communism fears them -- they have the loyalty of too many of the people.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
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Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:12 pm 
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It's quite a bit more complex than that. Particularly in the PRC, atheism was actively encouraged even before the Cultural Revolution. One of Lenin's big contributions to Communism was the push for atheism as part of the ideological purity of Marxism. China picked up where Leninism left off. The issue wasn't just a matter of power struggles or competition for loyalty, as you claim (though that was also part of it). Superstition of all kinds was discouraged for its own sake, whether or not it was part of any identifiable "organized" religion. And oh boy, did/does China have a lot of them. Supernatural thinking itself was considered incompatible with communist thought, which is just another way of saying that the "Chino-Leninist" brand of Communism was inherently (and often enough explicitly) atheist in its outlook.

But ultimately what I'm saying is that the desire for a thing entails the desire for its parts. That is, if you want make a cake, you must also want to break eggs, etc. When we declare that the act of breaking an egg was motivated by the desire for cake, we're really only admitting that egg-breaking is a proper part of making cake. It is what it is. Or to put it another way, breaking eggs to make a cake is only necessary because it is essential part of "cakeness". If it were not, the act would be unnecessary to fulfill the desire for cake.

I'm not mixing up cause and effect. Rather, I'm observing that in reality, human motivations tend not to follow neat causal lines to begin with except in very simple cases. With respect to complex constructs like political ideologies and especially with respect to aggregate functions like "war" or "revolution", assigning singular, or even primary, cause and effect is always a bit of an artificial activity.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
It's quite a bit more complex than that. Particularly in the PRC, atheism was actively encouraged even before the Cultural Revolution. One of Lenin's big contributions to Communism was the push for atheism as part of the ideological purity of Marxism. China picked up where Leninism left off. The issue wasn't just a matter of power struggles or competition for loyalty, as you claim (though that was also part of it). Superstition of all kinds was discouraged for its own sake, whether or not it was part of any identifiable "organized" religion. And oh boy, did/does China have a lot of them. Supernatural thinking itself was considered incompatible with communist thought, which is just another way of saying that the "Chino-Leninist" brand of Communism was inherently (and often enough explicitly) atheist in its outlook.


This much is true. Once again, note that I mentioned it was ideological thinking that caused the problem. Marxism (and Maoism) simply became the official state "religions." God was replaced by the State itself, and it would tolerate no rival faith.

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But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Apparently you are not familiar with Communist revolutions.


Evidently you didn't read anything I wrote.

Quote:
Regardless of the primary motivators, nobody ever started a war or committed an attrocity in the name of atheism. Yes, atheists like Stalin and mow did commit attrocities, but the fact that they were atheists was only tangentally related (if that much) to what they did.


The communist revolutions were started by some atheists. They were not done in the name of atheism.


Actually, it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that they were. If you were right the whole persecution of Christians never would have be a consistant, and necessary part of those revolutions.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:57 pm 
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The destruction of thought was not done by the great march or even intended at the start of the revolution led by Mao. Atheism was not the adopted religion of PRC Communism, in fact Confucism was practiced by Mao himself at the start of the revolution. As the majority of China was Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Confucist (sp?) etc etc etc, his revolution would not have lifted off the ground if this was a major requirement.

What you guys are talking about happened during the Cultural revolution (which came later). This was a political move to drive out a political adversary (who’s name escapes me atm). It’s original intend was to drive out any thought not inline with the then Maoism, to “destroy the old world, and forge the new world”. However in the hands of really bored teenagers, it came to include ANYTHING found in the old world. This included but was not limited to artefacts, buildings, books, basically anything with a connection to the past. The fact that religious buildings or books were included was not the main target but an innocent by product.

The palaces were ransacked, walls and sculptures destroyed, and it didn’t matter if these contained depictions of a religious figure or dancing girls. Old poet graves were dug up and their bodies dragged through the streets. The Chinese had a habit of keeping wooden block containing their ancestor’s names in their home (Much like the other asian cultures still do), these were forcefully taken from each home and burnt.

So no, Atheism was not actively encouraged (actually there’s no word for Atheism in Chinese) but was merely a by product of destroying the old culture.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
Apparently you are not familiar with Communist revolutions.


Evidently you didn't read anything I wrote.

Quote:
Regardless of the primary motivators, nobody ever started a war or committed an attrocity in the name of atheism. Yes, atheists like Stalin and mow did commit attrocities, but the fact that they were atheists was only tangentally related (if that much) to what they did.


The communist revolutions were started by some atheists. They were not done in the name of atheism.


The destruction of all religion sounds like atheism to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
The destruction of all religion sounds like atheism to me.


Really? Funny ... I don't remember them trying to destroy all religion...oh yeah, because they didn't! The Russian Orthodox Church continued to operate, without oppression, through the Soviet Reign. Oh, you couldn't be a member of the church and a member of the Communist Party, but being a member of the Church was not a capital offense in the Soviet Union.

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...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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Just to add a bit of actual history to the mix:
One of the stated tenets of the Soviet Union's ideology was the removal of religion. The Soviet Union promoted atheism in its schools. In an effort to turn people from their religious beliefs, the Soviet Union employed seizure of Church property, closure of seminaries, propaganda, state-sponsored harassment, torture, imprisonment, psychological "reprogramming" and, when those methods failed, execution (by the thousands). These methods were used against all organized religions, including and at times exclusively, against the Orthodox Church. It was only after the outbreak of WWII that the Orthodox Church was used as a means by Stalin to augment a feeling of unity amongst the population while ramping up for the "Great Patriotic War", of course this was under the "guidance" of the state authorities. When this need had passed, Khrushchev and subsequently Brezhnev revived the attacks on the Church.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:54 am 
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Something of the OP and the non derailed portions of this thread bother me on some deep level; but I cannot put it into words.

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