PARENTS should not lie to their children about Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, but instead let them in on the secret, an Australian writer claims.
Dr Joanne Faulkner, a Sydney academic, says children can still enjoy the magic of Christmas and Easter, even if they know the truth.
In her new book, The Importance of Being Innocent, she says parents "should not create a fantasy where children are not given any basis for knowing what's real and what's pretend".
She told the Herald Sun the popularity of such figures as Santa and the Easter Bunny merely fuelled an adult desire to recreate the past.
"It's also because we adults feel vulnerable to all sorts of things that we can't control," Dr Faulkner said.
Dr Faulkner has two children aged nine and 17.
"The Christmas and Easter stories are nice but I regret ever having let them believe in that," she said.
"My oldest daughter was extremely upset when she found out about Santa. She felt like she had been lied to and it's an awful feeling."
In the book, released last month, Dr Faulkner argues the insistence that children are always innocent "does not serve their interests well".
She concludes anxiety about any loss of childhood innocence is an "imaginary problem".
But Daniel Donahoo, Melbourne author of Idolising Children said Dr Faulkner was "heading in the wrong direction".
"There's something about imagination and the spaces that kids take themselves to that is important to respect," he said.
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm Posts: 2289 Location: Bat Country
The sooner you stop believing in imaginary elves, the better.
_________________ "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:55 am Posts: 3679 Location: My Kingdom Come
Talya wrote:
Kirra wrote:
Do you think there are any children that, when upon finding out that Santa is not real, instantly think..."wow, my parents lied to me" ?
Yes, I know some who felt that way.
Let me put it to you another way:
Out of the millions (perhaps billions?) of children who have been told Santa exists, do you not think that it affected any of them negatively?'
Not believing in Santa never hurt anyone.
I am sure in the billions of children in the world that there are some that feel they were lied to about the existence of Santa...I just don't believe that it is the majority of children.
It's all a matter of opinon...
I agree with you that not believing doesn't hurt children either...but I don't think that was the debate here.
I was just making the point that I didn't think most children think their parents were lying when they found out Santa wasn't real.
You can find evidence to prove either statement...none of it truely matters. What does matter is how you, as a parent choose to raise your child. Some parents will believe that it affects their children, others will choose differently.
_________________
Quote:
Do ever want to just grab someone and say...WTF is wrong with you?
Dream as if you'll live forever... ...Live as if you'll die tomorrow
The sooner you stop believing in imaginary elves, the better.
And the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree is any better?
_________________ Darksiege Traveller, Calé, Whisperer Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
The sooner you stop believing in imaginary elves, the better.
And the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree is any better?
The Zombie doesn't physically bring presents to children. His existence as a form of God is faith-based. Parents teach children that Santa is real in the material sense.
if some people can have their invisible friend who offers them something worth infinitely more than a PS3.... I do not see how a fat Blood with Reindeer is hurting anyone.
_________________ Darksiege Traveller, Calé, Whisperer Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am Posts: 9449 Location: Your Dreams
Kirra wrote:
I am sure in the billions of children in the world that there are some that feel they were lied to about the existence of Santa...I just don't believe that it is the majority of children.
I've never said it was a majority. I'd be surprised if it had a noticeable effect on a significant fraction of kids. But why risk it when we don't have a reason to celebrate this holiday? What is the "reason for the season?" To celebrate the birth of a god one doesn't believe in? To feed the commercial machine and spend and consume? Perhaps to taint the celebration with all the pagan trappings it is wrapped in today?
I sorta like that last one. But even when I celebrated Yule, I didn't make this a special season. I never really thought there was much point to it. To anyone who thinks this is somehow depriving a family of joy, it's not that we don't celebrate for other reasons. And--believe it or not--the population of the world that celebrates christmas is a minority.
_________________ Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails... ...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be? Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me █ ♣ █
if some people can have their invisible friend who offers them something worth infinitely more than a PS3.... I do not see how a fat Blood with Reindeer is hurting anyone.
I don't accept gifts when one of the terms is my death.
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm Posts: 2289 Location: Bat Country
I also hate Christmas.
_________________ "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:55 am Posts: 3679 Location: My Kingdom Come
Talya wrote:
I've never said it was a majority. I'd be surprised if it had a noticeable effect on a significant fraction of kids. But why risk it when we don't have a reason to celebrate this holiday? What is the "reason for the season?" To celebrate the birth of a god one doesn't believe in? To feed the commercial machine and spend and consume? Perhaps to taint the celebration with all the pagan trappings it is wrapped in today?
I sorta like that last one. But even when I celebrated Yule, I didn't make this a special season. I never really thought there was much point to it. To anyone who thinks this is somehow depriving a family of joy, it's not that we don't celebrate for other reasons. And--believe it or not--the population of the world that celebrates christmas is a minority.
I also never said that it deprives a family or children of joy if they don't believe. It is an individual thing for everyone. I'm sure you celebrate differently with your children and I am sure they are happy with what you choose to do. This also goes for the majority of the people who don't celebrate Christmas also. If that's their belief and they are happy, that is what matters. My faith and the way my family celebrated Christmas made me happy and I love this time of the year.
It's just the judgemental statements that draw me in to express my beliefs. Not that I want to change you or convince you that I am better. But, then again, that's what debate is, I guess.
_________________
Quote:
Do ever want to just grab someone and say...WTF is wrong with you?
Dream as if you'll live forever... ...Live as if you'll die tomorrow
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm Posts: 2289 Location: Bat Country
Kirra wrote:
But, then again, that's what debate is, I guess.
Not necessarily, but frequently.
_________________ "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Out of the millions (perhaps billions?) of children who have been told Santa exists, do you not think that it affected any of them negatively?'
You said "A LOT". Backpeddle all you like. Believing in Santa never hurt anyonestatistically significant proportion of the population.
Fixed that for consistency for you.
_________________ "Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee "... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades
I guess we shouldn't bother teaching kids science until they are ready to hear the truth about Santa, or perhaps have parental permission forms for kids to be taught science. As long as children believe Santa brings them presents, they have an extremely weak understanding of science (and criminal law). One of the first lessons should be explaining how it's impossible.
I guess we shouldn't bother teaching kids science until they are ready to hear the truth about Santa, or perhaps have parental permission forms for kids to be taught science. As long as children believe Santa brings them presents, they have an extremely weak understanding of science (and criminal law). One of the first lessons should be explaining how it's impossible.
Why? My knowledge of science is what made me declare shenanigans about Santa.
I guess we shouldn't bother teaching kids science until they are ready to hear the truth about Santa, or perhaps have parental permission forms for kids to be taught science. As long as children believe Santa brings them presents, they have an extremely weak understanding of science (and criminal law). One of the first lessons should be explaining how it's impossible.
Why? My knowledge of science is what made me declare shenanigans about Santa.
This is like saying it's ok for children to skip half their classes because they can figure stuff out on their own.
PARENTS should not lie to their children about Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, but instead let them in on the secret, an Australian writer claims.
Dr Joanne Faulkner, a Sydney academic, says children can still enjoy the magic of Christmas and Easter, even if they know the truth.
In her new book, The Importance of Being Innocent, she says parents "should not create a fantasy where children are not given any basis for knowing what's real and what's pretend".
She told the Herald Sun the popularity of such figures as Santa and the Easter Bunny merely fuelled an adult desire to recreate the past.
"It's also because we adults feel vulnerable to all sorts of things that we can't control," Dr Faulkner said.
Dr Faulkner has two children aged nine and 17.
"The Christmas and Easter stories are nice but I regret ever having let them believe in that," she said.
"My oldest daughter was extremely upset when she found out about Santa. She felt like she had been lied to and it's an awful feeling."
In the book, released last month, Dr Faulkner argues the insistence that children are always innocent "does not serve their interests well".
She concludes anxiety about any loss of childhood innocence is an "imaginary problem".
But Daniel Donahoo, Melbourne author of Idolising Children said Dr Faulkner was "heading in the wrong direction".
"There's something about imagination and the spaces that kids take themselves to that is important to respect," he said.
So I'm gonna use the rythm method, AND not spare the rod (lol). Score two for the bible! Science backs it up so it's gotta be best!
_________________ A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill
So I'm gonna use the rythm method, AND not spare the rod (lol). Score two for the bible! Science backs it up so it's gotta be best!
The rhythm method also makes it easier to pull out and drop a one on the chest or face, as opposed to trying to pull out, rip off a condom and do the same...
just saying.
_________________ Darksiege Traveller, Calé, Whisperer Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut
As strange as it seems, I still have a fairly clear memory of how I figured out on my own that there was no Santa....
We were spending Christmas at Grandma's in Ventura CA. Mom and Grandma (Nana) had been out shopping earlier in the day, and I was snooping around the house and found a new, unopened skittle pool game under Nana's bed.
I somehow managed to suppress the urge to drag it out and start playing with it, and just kept my find to myself. A few days later, on Christmas morning, it showed up under the Christmas Tree, tagged "To {me}, From Santa".
I remember being feeling a little sad. Not about the fact that I had been lied to. More because I somehow knew that Christmases would never be same. I eventually took it as a sort of 'you're a big boy now', 'right of passage' sort of thing. My big brother and sister were relieved they didn't have to worry about being the ones to spill the beans. And then I was saddled with the responsibility to not blab my new found secret to my other same-age friends....
I don't have any recollection of feeling betrayed, or deceived, or lied to at all....
This.
And yaye for bringing back the memory of skittle pool......I had totally forgotten about that! I loved mine.......wonder whatever happened to it........probably junked by my little brother years later.
I never felt betrayed or lied to by my parents as a kid once I found out Santa wasn't real. In fact, I kept up the charade so I could keep getting gifts The feeling of waking in the morning and running in to look under the tree is one that I wouldn't give back for anything. I think every child should get to experience that feeling......as there is enough suck in later life to deal with. Why take away those special moments?
And on that note.......I love this song and it says a lot about this topic......
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am Posts: 9449 Location: Your Dreams
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
You said "A LOT". Backpeddle all you like. Believing in Santa never hurt anyone.
Even in the unlikely event it was less than 1%, such a small fraction would still be millions of people. That's certainly "A LOT."
_________________ Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails... ...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be? Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me █ ♣ █
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am Posts: 15740 Location: Combat Information Center
Lex Luthor wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I guess we shouldn't bother teaching kids science until they are ready to hear the truth about Santa, or perhaps have parental permission forms for kids to be taught science. As long as children believe Santa brings them presents, they have an extremely weak understanding of science (and criminal law). One of the first lessons should be explaining how it's impossible.
Why? My knowledge of science is what made me declare shenanigans about Santa.
This is like saying it's ok for children to skip half their classes because they can figure stuff out on their own.
No it's not. Stop being a **** moron. You're treating "children" as if all children, from birth to the age of majority, are the same.
You don't have the first **** clue as to a basis to tell people that the should tell their children Santa doesn't exist, and everyone one of your assertions as to how it "will" affect them is just bullshit you've made up in your own head for no other reason thatn to try to piss people off.
Anyone who seriously thinks that childhood legends like the Tooth Fairy, Santa, or the Easter Bunny lead to significant trust issues in the absence of other problems that would have led to the same issues anyhow either is A) trolling B) a fuclking idiot or C) has personal issues they are trying to represent as fact. Lex, you're the prime example. This entire thread is just one bullshit unsupported assertion by you after another.
_________________ "Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm Posts: 2289 Location: Bat Country
Speaking for myself, my impetus isn't that the lie is harmful, but that there are no real benefits. Why spend the effort hiding the truth when eventually they're just gonna figure it out? No one's childhood happiness will be ruined by not believing in Santa. It's mostly for selfish reasons. ;P
_________________ "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Speaking for myself, my impetus isn't that the lie is harmful, but that there are no real benefits. Why spend the effort hiding the truth when eventually they're just gonna figure it out? No one's childhood happiness will be ruined by not believing in Santa. It's mostly for selfish reasons. ;P
I don't know if you are being serious about this(I can never tell with your posts), but I agree with what is written here.
My brother and his girlfriend were just down for Thanksgiving with my 3 year old nephew. They used Santa as a way to get him to behave and pretty much nothing more. He'd be doing something bad and they would say "I'm gonna call Santa" and Julian would be all like, "Nooooooooo..." and if he kept doing it, they would pull out their cell phones and he'd start crying and stop. I couldn't help but feel the whole thing was very screwed up...but it isn't my place to tell my brother how to raise his son.
_________________ Los Angeles Kings 2014 Stanley Cup Champions
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:40 pm Posts: 2289 Location: Bat Country
They're gonna be in trouble when he figures out the ruse.
_________________ "...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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