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Elmarnieh
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:49 pm 
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TheRiov wrote:
So wouldn't the land have original belonged to aboriginal people, not 'unclaimed'


Unclaimed is unclaimed. If there were people there using the land it would not be unclaimed.

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Elmarnieh
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Hopwin wrote:
Interesting. I don't see anywhere Elmo is stating "I feel" which would indicate a moral position, instead he seems to be asserting that they have no legal right to stop you from doing whatever the hell you want.

I can certainly empathize with a moral argument that the government has too much authority but that doesn't change the fact that they have that legal hold over me.

Elmo: Chaotic Good
Arathain: Lawful Good.


Authority is dependent on just law, just law by definition is defined by being just. Just is a moral position thus authority is always a moral statement.

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Elmarnieh
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Legal hold means that they have more force than you do - its a meaningless statement if you equate authority with whomever has the most force to boss you around with threats.

Authority itself is not raw force but just ability to exercise that force - any fool can punch you but a person who punches you in self defense has the authority to do it.

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Rorinthas
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Well the city government certainly has the authority to " punch you in the face" with actual fines and imprisonment then.

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Diamondeye
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Authority is dependent on just law, just law by definition is defined by being just. Just is a moral position thus authority is always a moral statement.


Authority is not dependant on just law.

Just law is not "defined by being just"; that is a circular argument.

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Arathain Kelvar
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:47 am 
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Echo wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Elmarnieh wrote:
No, that gives them power and the illusion of authority to, well, to people like you.


LOL, man. Reality is going to catch up with your ideological delusions one day, and it's going to sting.


This is really very simple.

You claim they have authority, much in the same way someone having a gun against your head has "authority", i.e. we have the power to enforce rules we create.

He claims they have no legitimate authority based on a moral viewpoint, not a legal one. It is a valid point. Even if you disagree with the morality, you can recognize why someone else may feel that way.

I'm sure you understand this. This place is as pedantic as it has ever been.


The problem is he's using his views/ideology to advise the person posing the question on a course of action. That course of action will likely get them bitten in the ***.

In a lot of ways, on this issue, I agree with Elmo. But that agreement is on how things "should" be, not how they are. I'm not in the business of giving advice to others that could cause them harm, just to support my own ideology.
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Stathol
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Dash is a big boy.

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:54 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Dash is a big boy.


:roll:

What's your point? That I shouldn't disagree with Elmo's nonsense because Dash can make up his own mind? What's the point of posting at all in the thread then?
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Stathol
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:58 am 
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I'm pretty sure the point of this thread isn't to be referendum on Elmo's philosophy, yeah.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with him, etc., etc. but in this forum, and in this thread, it's really just a thread-jack. And to be honest, I don't particularly buy that's it really motivated out of genuine concern for Dash's well-being.

***** about Elmo all you want -- I really don't care. But can we just not do it here?

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Arathain Kelvar
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
I'm pretty sure the point of this thread isn't to be referendum on Elmo's philosophy, yeah.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with him, etc., etc. but in this forum, and in this thread, it's really just a thread-jack. And to be honest, I don't particularly buy that's it really motivated out of genuine concern for Dash's well-being.

***** about Elmo all you want -- I really don't care. But can we just not do it here?


It's relevant. And yes, it's motivated by a desire to convey to those in the thread that his views are not indicative of reality, and that following his advice will bite you in the ***.

As for your advice on what to post where - thanks, but I'm not interested.
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Stathol
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:08 pm 
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Let me rephrase that:

Political arguments go in either heckfire or hellfire. There it is where they go. Put them there.

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For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
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Arathain Kelvar
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
Let me rephrase that:

Political arguments go in either heckfire or hellfire. There it is where they go. Put them there.


You have a lot of spare time.

It's a rant about local government bureaucracy, and you don't want politics in it? That's just weird, man.

Did Dash complain? I'm sure if I pissed him off, he'd let me know. Like you said - he's a big boy....
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Stathol
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:05 pm 
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If it were actually on point and germane to the OP, that might be different. But 99% of this thread really has nothing to do with it.

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Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.
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Hopwin
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
If it were actually on point and germane to the OP, that might be different. But 99% of this thread really has nothing to do with it.

Seems pretty damn spot-on to me.

Problem wrote:
I have problem with the government, need advice.

Elmo Solution wrote:
There is no spoon... er government.

Arathain wrote:
WTF Seriously?

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Arathain Kelvar
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Stathol wrote:
If it were actually on point and germane to the OP, that might be different. But 99% of this thread really has nothing to do with it.


Well, it was - but it certainly isn't anymore.
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