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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Why not? Because they demand their freedom?

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Why not? Because they demand their freedom?


While I do not think I agree with the "Not have nice things." There is a BIG difference between looting and demanding freedom. If they are going to loot, they may not deserve nice things, if they are going to fight for their freedom; then fight people fight.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:10 pm 
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I'm fairly sure Lex was attempting sarcasm.

Wherever there is rioting there will be looting, its part of the base nature of humanity. Most of the people are protesting, a small percentage are looting. With as many people protesting that small percentage looks pretty big.

We've propped up a republic in name only for 35 years. It has effectively been a dictatorship growing increasingly more corrupt over time. If anything, we owe an apology to the Egyptian people and should keep our hands off of this revolution.

Unfortunately, the possibility of Egypt transforming to another Iran style of government is all too high to stay totally out of the picture. Why don't we let Russia take Mubarak so we can still have a tiny bit of credibility in Egypt..

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:19 am 
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If a real leader like W was still President he'd pick up the phone, call Egypt and demand to speak to the Pharaoh.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:24 am 
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Micheal wrote:
I'm fairly sure Lex was attempting sarcasm.


I'm fairly certain that Lex is Jack Isidore.

I discussion of real events, I think that by Monday, Obama will be calling on Mubarak to step down.

Too soon?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:47 am 
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I have no clue who Jack Isidore is, but that isn't Lex's real name.

As to the rest of your post, I don't think you are wrong as to the next major step, Monday may be too soon, or it may be too late.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:29 am 
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Thanks for the input Mike.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:35 pm 
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I don't think Obama will ever call him to step down. Whoever replaces him might try to shut down the Suez canal, implement sharia law, etc. Democracies don't work in Muslim countries because the people are batshit crazy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:31 pm 
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I actually agree with Lex, I don't see the U.S. calling on him to step aside. I think those arrangements have already been made, though. Depends on if you think the real power base in Egypt is still the military, or the security services. Historically, it's been the military, and if they no longer be support Mubarak, which seems to be more and more the case, he may be on an airplane to France in the next 2 days.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Senator Kerry, head of the foreign relations committee, has kind of asked Mubarak to step aside, sort of.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Was Kerry for Mubarak before he was against him? I hope the US just stays out of it. Its nice to see a Middle Eastern riot without burning American flags for once.

Course that dip**** Matthews blamed Bush for the Egypt riots.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:23 pm 
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Egypt would probably be a better place if the British still controlled it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Egypt would probably be a better place if the British still controlled it.


As would Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Cyprus, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Jamaica; Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, and Zambia.

The jury is still out on a few others. Most that took their independance weren't as lucky as the Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or the USA.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Great, now I've got the tiny toons version of the song stuck in my brain.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:37 pm 
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http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... -egypt.ars

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ABC News ran a story on the gas today in which it quotes a protestor saying, "The way I see it, the US administration supports dictators."


One's that do what we say, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:26 pm 
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http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/30/la ... st/?hpt=T1

A good move on Mubarak's part, if it had happened a week ago.

Egypt latest - Mubarak to new PM: Engage with all political parties

January 30th, 2011
04:20 AM ET


Read full coverage of the unrest in Egypt updated continually by CNN reporters worldwide. Send your photos and video to iReport and see CNN in Arabic here.

– [Update 4:45 a.m. Cairo, 9:45 p.m. ET] In remarks to his newly appointed prime minister, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak recognized the "peaceful demonstrations" in recent days as reputable, while adding that some such gatherings had been "infiltrated" by people whose goal was to "spread fear" in society through hooliganism, looting and other criminal activity, according to a transcript read on state-run Nile TV.

The president also charged the new cabinet, to be shaped by newly appointed Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq, to restore Egyptians' faith in the economy and relieve people's suffering by helping contain prices for basic commodities and combat high unemployment. Mubarak ordered the new government not to touch government subsidies for key goods.

– [Update 4:25 a.m. Cairo, 9:25 p.m. ET] Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak urged leaders of his new government Sunday to engage in dialogue with all political parties to help achieve "a democratic civil society," state-run Nile TV reported. He also called on them to restore people's faith in the Egyptian economy and to control unemployment, according to a readout of remarks the embattled president made to his newly appointed prime minister.

– [Update 4:18 a.m. Cairo, 9:18 p.m. ET] CNN's Nic Robertson reports from Alexandria, where gunshots - apparently just warning shots - could be heard as protesters walked the streets after curfew Sunday night.

– [Update 3:33 a.m. Cairo, 8:33 p.m. ET] Addressing the situation in Egypt, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that "we don't want to interfere, but we demand respect for the leaders." He said that he's talked with Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad about the crisis.

– [Update 3:29 a.m. Cairo, 8:29 p.m. ET] About 20 armed police confronted and ended an anti-Mubarak demonstration Sunday by dozens of people in the West Bank, according to the nonprofit group Human Rights Watch. The security forces pushed the demonstrators away from the Egyptian Embassy, the group alleged in a statement.

– [Update 2:52 a.m. Cairo, 7:52 p.m. ET] Ali Regal, a student activist leader in Alexandria, said that the military is working closely with "the masses" - including demonstrators - to coordinate security around the port city. "The army is very helpful and working with us," Regal told CNN's Nic Robertson. "There is a strong cooperation between the masses and the army, that's what I can tell so far."

– [Update 2:10 a.m. Cairo, 7:10 p.m. ET] Shots can be heard in this video of crowds gathered outside a museum in Cairo on Sunday night.

Egyptian army troops fired a half-dozen shots into the air in front of the museum. Sporadic and sometimes intense gunfire was also heard in other parts of Cairo, as well as in downtown Alexandria.

– [Update 12:24 a.m. Monday in Cairo, 5:24 p.m. ET Sunday] For Americans trapped in Egypt or for concerned relatives and friends back home, the U.S. State Department has released the following information:

People interested in departing Egypt via U.S. government-chartered transportation should contact the State Department and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo by sending an e-mail to EgyptEmergencyUSC@state.gov or by calling 1-202-501-4444.

You should provide the following information:

– Name, age, place of birth and U.S. passport number and any special medical needs.

– Immediate family members (spouses and children) who are not U.S. citizens must be documented for entry into the safe-haven country and/or U.S., if that is your final destination.

– Travelers are permitted only one piece of luggage per person.

For families concerned that a U.S. citizen in Egypt might require assistance, they should send an e-mail to EgyptEmergencyUSC@state.gov or call 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada, or outside the United States and Canada on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444.

Get more information at http://egypt.usembassy.gov/ or http://travel.state.gov/

– [Update 11:56 p.m. Cairo, 4:56 p.m. ET] Police forces have returned to the streets in all police districts and all parts of Egypt, according to a report late Sunday on state-run Nile TV. The Egyptian army had been deployed to replace police forces that had clashed brutally with demonstrators.

– [Update 11:08 p.m. Cairo, 4:08 p.m. ET] With many grocers closing shop and food shipments spotty because of unrest, food in Egypt is in short supply, CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports. Some Egyptian families are running out of staples such as bread, beans and rice.

– [Update 10:38 p.m. Cairo, 3:38 p.m. ET] Heavy machine gun fire could be overheard Sunday night as thousands of protesters demanding the ouster of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak marched through downtown Alexandria, CNN's Nic Robertson reported. Army troops were positioned in various parts of the port city, having moved some of their checkpoints over the weekend.

– [Update 10:35 p.m. Cairo, 3:35 p.m. ET] A spokesman for British Prime Minister David Cameron said this about Cameron's conversation Sunday with U.S. President Barack Obama regarding Egypt: "[Cameron and Obama] were united in their view that Egypt now needed a comprehensive process of political reform, with an orderly, Egyptian-led transition to a government that responded to the grievances of the Egyptian people and to their aspirations for a democratic future."

– [Update 10:14 p.m. Cairo, 3:14 p.m. ET] U.S. President Barack Obama talked about the situation in Egypt during a call Sunday with British Prime Minister David Cameron, according to a White House statement. The previous day, he talked by phone to Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Saudi King Abdullah, the White House said Sunday. In those calls, Obama expressed support for "an orderly transition to a government that is responsive to the aspirations of the Egyptian people," according to the statement.

– [Update 9:46 p.m. Cairo, 2:46 p.m. ET] On Monday, a state-imposed curfew will start one hour earlier than Sunday's curfew started, state-run Nile TV reported. The curfew will run from 3 p.m. Monday to 8 a.m. Tuesday (8 a.m. ET Monday to 1 a.m. ET Tuesday).

Sunday's curfew started at 4 p.m. (9 a.m. ET) and will end at 8 a.m. Monday (1 a.m. ET).

– [Update 8:18 p.m. Cairo, 1:18 p.m. ET] CNN tape of Egyptian opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei showed him addressing protesters in Cairo: "I came today to participate today in the lives of Egyptians. Today I look into the eyes of each one of you and everyone is different today," he said. "Today you are an Egyptian demanding your rights and freedom and what we started can never be pushed back. As we said we have one main demand the end of the regime and to start a new phase." Watch ElBaradei address the crowd

– [Update 7 p.m. Cairo, Noon ET] ElBaradei has arrived in Cairo's Tahrir Square to address protesters, witnesses said.

– [Update 5:15 p.m. Cairo, 10:15 a.m. ET] Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has issued a presidential decision today appointing Gen. Gamal Embaba, an army division commander, governor of El Wadi el Jadid, state-run Nile TV reported. Watch live CNN's stream to Nile TV.

The network is also reporting several prison breaks throughout Egypt, but the number of escapees could not be verified.

– [Update 4:40 p.m. Cairo, 9:40 a.m. ET] Egyptian troops fired warning shots into the air in Cairo's Tahrir Square as demonstrators defied a curfew order Sunday evening.

– [Update 4:30 p.m. Cairo, 9:30 a.m. ET] U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton appeared on CNN's State of the Union. Clinton told CNN's Candy Crowley that the U.S. is neither on Mubarak's side or the protesters' side but that the U.S. is on the side of the Egyptian people. Watch CNN's Sunday morning interview with Clinton. Columnist Mona Eltahawy urges global community support for protesters.

Clinton told NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday that the U.S. does not have any reports of American citizens killed or injured in the anti-government protests in Egypt. Clinton said the U.S. has no plans to cut off aid to Egypt Sunday on ABC's "The Week."

– [Update 4 p.m. Cairo, 9 a.m. ET] Fighter planes flew low over the crowds in Cairo's Tahrir Square on Sunday, 10 minutes before the state-imposed curfew. Some in the crowd began holding prayers despite the planes. CNN's Ivan Watson said the fighter jets "show de force" was "dramatic" and that he could see the plane's cockpit from the ground.

– [Update 3:53 p.m. Cairo, 8:53 a.m. ET] Egyptian opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei on Sunday called for embattled President Hosni Mubarak to "leave today and save the country." Watch ElBaradei on CNN Sunday.
"This is a country that is falling apart," ElBaradei told CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS." Egypt is entering a period of transition, and a government of national unity is needed to fill the void and hold "fair and free" elections, ElBaradei said

– British Foreign Secretary William Hague called on Mubarak to start a democratic "transformation" and a process of "peaceful reform" that would lead to a more open and democratic society. "It is not for us to try to pick who should be the president of Egypt. It is a sovereign nation," Hague told Britain's Sky News - but he said reform would be "preferable to Egypt falling into the hands of extremism."

– [Update 3:30 p.m. Cairo, 8:30 a.m. ET] Egypt's defense minister, Gen. Mohamad Tantawi, urged the public Sunday to obey the 4 p.m.-8 a.m. curfew (9 a.m.-1 a.m. ET) Tantawi's statement was carried by state television, and Tantawi was escorted to the network's headquarters by red-helmeted troops in a convoy of sport-utility vehcies. Tantawi is among the Cabinet ministers that embattled President Hosni Mubarak announced he was replacing over the weekend.

In other developments earlier in Cairo on Sunday:

– The U.S. Embassy in Cairo will assist U.S. citizens who want to leave Egypt, said embassy spokeswoman Elizabeth Colton. She said flights will depart from Cairo on Monday. Turkey has already sent two planes to Egypt to begin evacuating its citizens.

– The State Department is urging U.S. citizens to avoid travel to Egypt.

– In Sudan, about 100 protesters at an university in Khartoum changed, "No to high prices, no to corruption" and "Tunisia, Egypt, Sudan together as one." Police forced students back to the university and closed the gates, but students came back out of the gates and threw bricks at officers.

– Al Jazeera "strongly denounces" the closure of its Cairo bureau by the Egyptian government, the news network said in a statement Sunday. Egypt's information ministry announced the shutdown of the Al Jazeera channel in Egypt and the withdrawal of its media license to operate in the country, state-run Nile TV reported Sunday.

– A body was found in front of the country's interior ministry Sunday morning, but there was no police presence nearby. Meanwhile, military tanks and hundreds of protesters were out on Cairo's Tahrir Square. No violence was spotted in that area.

– Vandals ripped off the heads off two mummies and tossed relics onto the ground in Cairo's Egyptian Museum, said Zahi Hawass, secretary-general of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities. The vandals were arrested and jailed, Hawass said. The museum has stepped up security and is now guarded by Egypt's army, he said.

– Four people admitted to looting in the Cairo area, according to state-run Nile TV, which aired their confessions.

– People who were trying to protect their property said they are worried about criminal gangs armed with samurai swords, clubs or rifles. Every time a motorcycles drove by, people rushed out to make sure such criminals didn't stop.

– Ahmed Rehab of the Council of American Islamic Relations said police were absent on Cairo streets. "People are walking around with baseball bats and knives," Rehab said early Sunday. "We didn't get any sleep all night."

– In Alexandria, the scene at hospitals was chaotic. The facilities were short-staffed, and injured protesters said they were not being treated quickly enough.

– At least 31 people have been killed in protests in Alexandria, hospital authorities told CNN Saturday. Earlier, the state-run Nile TV earlier reported that at least 38 people died in the country's unrest. It was unclear whether the Alexandria deaths were part of that toll.

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:36 am 
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Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Egypt would probably be a better place if the British still controlled it.


As would Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Cyprus, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Jamaica; Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, and Zambia.

The jury is still out on a few others. Most that took their independance weren't as lucky as the Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or the USA.


Perhaps from the colonistic impireal POV. I'd be willing to wager they'd have been better off hd the British never subjugated them in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:27 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Egypt would probably be a better place if the British still controlled it.


As would Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Cyprus, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Jamaica; Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, and Zambia.

The jury is still out on a few others. Most that took their independance weren't as lucky as the Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or the USA.


Perhaps from the colonistic impireal POV. I'd be willing to wager they'd have been better off hd the British never subjugated them in the first place.


Most of these places were ruled by despots. The British brought order, common law, started industries, construction projects, education, and such.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:15 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Perhaps from the colonistic impireal POV. I'd be willing to wager they'd have been better off hd the British never subjugated them in the first place.


Most of these places were ruled by despots. The British brought order, common law, started industries, construction projects, education, and such.


Most, yes. The Caribbean locations were colonized, not ruled by despots or subjugated. Hong Kong was rented from China for 99 years. (They were surely better off as a British territory, rather than under the Chinese rule.) The African nations...well, reverted to being typical African nations once given independance.

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 Post subject: Re: Egypt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:47 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Perhaps from the colonistic impireal POV. I'd be willing to wager they'd have been better off hd the British never subjugated them in the first place.



This line of conversation always reminds me of this:



That said, the argument I'm seeing in the news is that Egypt is the key to peace in the region. The peace treaty with Israel has held since 79 I think it was. So the fear is Mubarak out, Muslim Brotherhood in and/or Iranian style Islamist rule. War with Israel and each other in 5...4...3...2.

For arguments sake lets say that worst case happens. Egypt attacks Israel. US would go to war to stop it if necessary, does everyone here support that?

My inclination is for the US to stay out of it, side with freedom and let the chips fall where they may. If someone attacks our ally, we defend them.

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Also invade Egypt if they decide to shut down the Suez Canal.


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How about we just let Israel off the leash and let the IDF clean house? The only thing that will garner any respect in the region is when they beat ***. Diplomacy doesn't work because the US keeps meddling in it. Let the nations that want to fight get it over with and we deal with whoever ends up in the region.


But no, we are going to meddle. And treat them like children in the schoolyard. Tho I'm begining to feel that Obama finds foregin policy to be a distraction rather than a necessity.

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Hannibal wrote:
How about we just let Israel off the leash and let the IDF clean house?


Well, that's a bit premature at the moment. Mubarak has been one of Israel's biggest supporters in the region, consistantly blaming Hezbollah/Hamas for the flareups of violence.

This is what really sucks about this whole situation -- from a foreign policy standpoint, Mubarak has been ideal in almost every way. It's his domestic policies that are causing him trouble. If he gets ousted, I guarantee that what takes his place will not be nearly as friendly to the "West."

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