The Glade 4.0

Ok here's the deal.

I'm pretty much legally bound to the area I'm in. (I've mentioned this before, but long story short: If I move more than 25 miles from here, I lose primary custody of my daughter) In a few years where I live wont matter so much as my daughter's preference will be more important than where each parent lives to a family court.

I need to finish my education--its something I've put off too long and I need to move forward.

My long term goal is a graduate degree in astrophysics, which really requires completing my undergrad in a hard science. There are more than a few obstacles and I'm feeling a little stymied as to how to move forward.
a) "Online" universities don't offer degrees in the hard sciences, and even If they did, getting into grad school is going to be hard enough without that albatross
b) The only three traditional universities within several hours drive are: Marshall University (45 min away) Shawnee State (1 hr away), Morehead University (1.25 hrs away) -- NONE of which have programs in my exact area of interest. Marshall has a physics program, their whole natural sciences department seems like an afterthought.
c) I'm single-parenting. I can't really commute long distances and work full time.
d) Its been 16 years since i took a formal math class (Multivariable Calc, DiffEQ) and I think I've wiped most of it from my memory. I'm re-teaching myself and frankly, I think I know it better now than I did at the time, but so far I'm only up to Calc I. I really should survey a class or two, but the idea of driving an additional 2 hrs a day + Trying to work it into my schedule + 3-5 hrs of additional class time per week isn't something I think I can swing--for no credit.

My suggestion:

Review using MIT open courseware, or Yale open courseware.

If you use iTunes, you can skim iTunes University for video and audio lectures. They're also available from the institution sites, mostly. You should be able to find the math classes you're interested in, as well as start to work on some of the hard science classes.

As to grad school: Do you have a degree now, and you just think you need to get another one in hard sciences? Or do you not have a bachelors at all now? Because if you have a bachelors in something else, you might be able to go straight to grad school from where you are. Not usual, but happens.

None of those three universities am I familiar with, sadly- so I can't offer much advice on that front. I do have a friend that did his undergrad at Ohio University in Athens, which is about 1 hour 40 away from you- and is a nice place, good physical sciences dept. I'm not sure what you mean by "traditional" university, though.

In a few years, are you thinking of moving to an entirely new area (for grad school?) I'd assume you pretty much have to.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Is there a two-year college in your area? For the purpose of refreshing yourself on your math courses, you really don't need to go to a four-year college. In fact, as a single parent, you would be well-advised to complete as much of your degree at a two-year college as possible. You are not an eighteen year-old kid who's parents are paying for school. If it's been sixteen years and you've lost most of your memory of mathematics, it is very likely you will want to sit through a semester or two of calculus-based physics as well.

Doing the refresher courses at a community college will be cheaper, as well as reduce your driving time. You'll have less overhead in terms of stress and fatigue and will be able to focus on relearning the material you'll need for your graduate work.

How many years is it before your daughter's preference determines who she will live with?

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

its factored in now, but becomes more central about 13-14 (2 years)

No, I quit school to support a family and put my ex- through law school. She just never fufilled the promise to return the favor after she graduated.

Here's the MIT Opencourseware site for Physics and Here's the site for Math.

They have intro physics, as well as higher physics that might be helpful- and they have single variable calc and up.

I'd do your refreshers through them, I used them quite extensively before grad school, and they're quite helpful- recorded/videoed lectures + assignments, book suggestions, etc.

All the benefits of a class (except for being able to ask questions) and free. Great for reviewing, especially if you're a pretty self-directed learner.

I'd definitely look into Ohio University- it's a good school, not too far away, and has a solid physical science department, including MS and PhD programs in physics- so good research. Not sure how much their focus is in Astrophysics, but you could check here.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Ah! Here we go: The Astrophysical Institute at Ohio University.

It's a bit farther (about 15 minutes longer drive than Moorhead by Google Maps), but it has solid programs in your discipline of interest, and you could likely stay there through grad school without having to move too far.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Ooh- the OU Southern Campus is just across the river from you.

Granted, they don't offer physics degrees. You might be able to take some general courses there over the next few years and then transfer, however.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Ohio Southern doesn't have any programs that really interest me though. Satellite campuses have very limited selections.

I can not put this delicately. Take your *** over to Ohio Southern, or a community college, and get signed up for something in the summer. You just said you needed to relearn a bunch of math.

If you take some time to review math anywhere, starting with calc 1 in the summer, then you will be through differential equations by August of 2012. That gets you a little over a full year. If you mix in two semesters of calculus-based physics and take one class per semester, you can get all of your core material refreshed and reviewed by May of 2013. That's about when you've just told me your daughter gets to decide who she wants to live with. (I'm aware, her birthday may be later). This allows you to wait until custody issue resolves itself through your daughter's age, and still be doing something to move yourself forward.

This may not exactly be getting you done as quickly as you would like, but I want to reiterate that you are a single father. There are very good family reasons for slowly bringing yourself up to speed. It also allows you to wait until you have more freedom to move around before you decide which school to finish up at. There may be other classes for you to get out of the way at this time. I don't know how much of your undergraduate degree you finished, nor how much of it will be applicable or will transfer to the program you're interested in. It is possible you'll be taking those math courses for credit, as some schools may no longer accept the credits you earned fifteen years ago. Don't let that prospect discourage you, but be prepared to deal with it should it arise.

Your best bet is to go to a community college sometime this month and apply for admission. You don't have to actually enroll in courses, but you'd need to be admitted to use their advisors, and that's probably who you want to talk to. It doesn't cost you any money, and they have a lot of information about various four-year schools. Remember, their students are transferring all over the place. This lets you research where you want to go to finish your undergraduate degree on a Thursday afternoon. Get a copy of your transcript if you can. That way you can sit down and talk about what courses you've completed that you could expect to transfer, which courses you're likely to have to retake, and which courses you never took.

The next question becomes how much latitude you have once your daughter is old enough to choose who she will live with? Do you have to remain in the same state? Do you have to remain within a certain distance? From what you've posted so far, it sounds to me like you need more freedom to move about the country than you currently have. Even if the best you can do is move closer to Marshall, that means you've got a half hour round-trip rather than ninety minutes.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Honestly? It sounds like you should table it for now and focus on your daughter. Consider obtaining permission to move, but that's probably not best for your daughter either.

Maybe you should contact the school you are planning on attending, when the time is right for your daughter, and discuss with them what prerequisites you need and what basic courses (english, math, etc) you need that you can take online and get transferred.

Good luck.

Then there's the main campus. It's only a bit farther than Moorhead, which you were considering, and has a PhD program in Astrophysics, so plenty that you should be able to take that would interest you.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Something that is being overlooked is that Riov has not finished an undergraduate degree program. He may well be able to move once he's actually enrolled in a graduate program. A program that interests him is largely moot for his Bachelor's. He's interested in some type of physics. As long as he can find a university that offers a B.S. or B.A. in physics, he's fine. He doesn't have to do his Master's or PhD at the same school he gets his Bachelor's from. The problem he's having currently is that he's making too big a deal of where he goes for his Bachelor's that he won't get off his rump and get moving. Fifteen years is a long time. He might have to retake a boatload of classes - more than just his math.

Riov, you need to go to one of these institutions, talk to someone, and find out. Tell them exactly what you told us. Tell them you want to do a graduate degree in astrophysics. Tell them you're a single father. Tell them about your daughter.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I'm not overlooking that. But looking at the other local colleges, none of them offer any significant science or math instruction. And he's going to have a really hard time going from that to a graduate program in physics, they've been quite insanely competitive the last few years.

And I'm assuming that he isn't going to want to move too far, even in a couple of years- so starting at a school where he can get an inside track on admission to a graduate program is a huge plus- depending on his exact background (how many hours he has and in what concentrations), he might even be able to start working on a 4+1 type program, dual enrolling for a MS and BS at the same time, which would give him a significant leg up in going to grad school.

But unless he really wants to go teach at a high caliber institution, it won't matter if he gets his BS and PhD at the same place, and doing so will give him a much easier time with admissions, as well as continuity with his research.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Physics programs have been struggling for quite some time, because physics isn't "what's hot" in the sciences. All of the kids going to grade school are impressed and wowed with environmental sciences. Biology and chemistry also have good PR teams. There is only so much we're able to do to get kids excited about physics. It is possible that a show like the Big Bang Theory has made the field more attractive to the public conscience, but we are fighting an uphill PR battle. If you'll notice, science fiction has been increasingly influenced by psychology over the past twenty years. That really isn't going to change unless something big happens, like a Mars landing. I don't mean the rover, I mean putting a human being on the red planet. The problem is worse across the Atlantic, and I've read of European universities that have shut their physics programs down entirely because they don't have enough students enrolling.

Competitive? This brings to mind a conversation I was having with two PhD physicists a while back, who were explaining to me that a common procedure in physics graduate programs is to take students who are interested so that the professors have warm bodies to serve as TAs, and then wait until their last semester to flunk the ones who can't hack it. Competitive means that there are other people gunning for your slot in the program, which is not what the aforementioned scenario describes. Rather, it speaks of the requirements for acceptance being lowered in order to fill seats.

Now, it's entirely possible that an accreditation board started getting on people about flunking out too many students and threatened to yank their accreditation if they didn't stop. As a result, these programs are now only accepting people who possess the capability of passing. That could make it hard to get in, but the barrier to entry is the difficulty of the course material, rather than competition from other potential students. I have had professors from four different fields (physics, mathematics, chemistry, and engineering) all tell me that getting into graduate school is not very difficult for a person with talent and drive. If you're hung up on one school, like a high school senior fretting about being accepted to her dream university, than I suppose you're looking at competition. That's a case of not seeing the forest through the trees if ever there was one.

Here is the scenario presented to us in a nutshell: Riov has expressed an interest in going back to school, and described a dilemma regarding child custody. This is a noble and laudable goal. When he received help, when someone went out of their way to do some research, Riov turned up his nose at all of the institutions mentioned. That's a habit he has that he's displayed several times in the past, and right now it's keeping him from realizing one of his life's goals.

Riov:

I don't know what body of knowledge you used to posses, or how close you were to finishing a Bachelor's. It is clear to me from reading your posts here in various other threads that you have forgotten a lot. You aren't going to start up at a university next Fall and pick up where you left off. You're going to have to review more than just your math. You probably will be able to review it quicker than the timeline I proposed earlier - that was put forth so that you could time your enrollment in the school of your choice with your daughter reaching a certain age so that you weren't restricted to living within 25 miles.

The school you refresh your material at does not have to be the same school you graduate from. You can transfer at any time. The longer you putz around thinking of reasons why it's going to be a hassle to go to grad school, the more you're going to convince yourself not to do it. You've been trying to talk yourself out of going back to school this entire thread. That needs to stop, or else I know you'll never get your Master's in astrophysics.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

We can argue back and forth on the competitiveness of grad school. I advise quite a few undergrads on admissions, and I know how many *qualified* students our university turns down for physics PhDs; as well as the number of good students that I knew that couldn't get in anywhere. The current stats I'm hearing for a tier 3 grad school are around 1200 GRE, a 3.5+ GPA, and a few years of undergraduate research. But that's just the average. It's not unreachable, but it's certainly important to find a school that has a solid program in your interest, at least for the last two years or so.

It also always depends on what you want to do with your degree.... If you want to teach, you really *do* need to go to a competitive school.

And definitely go somewhere close and cheap and transfer. Find out what credits you have that are usable towards a physics degree, and go there.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Good graduate programs are hyper competitive. The program I went through for my Ph.D. in Comp Lit takes 6 students a year.

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