The Glade 4.0

http://netrightdaily.com/2011/02/unrest ... z1EFFXMbpY

Unrest has broken out in Madison, Wisconsin as Big Labor seeks to stop legislation that would curtail the unprecedented levels of power that left-wing labor groups have wielded in the state for far too long.

From the AFL-CIO to the DNC, Wisconsin has turned into ground-zero for the fight against Big Labor and the devastation that union’s cast on taxpayers and state budgets. The DNC is providing aid and comfort to the unions involved, according to Ben Smith at Politico:

The Democratic National Committee’s Organizing for America arm — the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign — is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

OfA, as the campaign group is known, has been criticized at times for staying out of local issues like same-sex marraige, but it’s riding to the aide of the public sector unions who hoping to persuade some Republican legislators to oppose Walker’s plan. And while Obama may have his difference with teachers unions, OfA’s engagement with the fight — and Obama’s own clear stance against Walker — mean that he’s remaining loyal to key Democratic Party allies at what is, for them, a very dangerous moment.

OfA Wisconsin’s field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said.

The @OFA_WI twitter account has published 54 tweets promoting the rallies, which the group has also plugged on its blog.

“At a time when most folks are still struggling to get back on their feet, Gov. Walker has asked the state legislature to strip public employees of their collective bargaining rights. Under his plan, park rangers, teachers, and prison guards would no longer be able to fight back if the new Republican majority tries to slash their health benefits or pensions,” OfA Wisconsin State Director Dan Grandone wrote supporters in an email. “But that’s not even the most shocking part: The governor has also put the state National Guard on alert in case of ‘labor unrest.’ We can’t — and won’t — let Scott Walker’s heavy-handed tactics scare us. This Tuesday and Wednesday, February 15th and 16th, volunteers will be attending rallies at the state

The situation has spun so far out of control that all of the Wisconsin State Senate Democrats have fled the state. Many think they are seeking “asylum”, if you will, in Illinois (no surprise that they would run to this den of communists). Without at least 1 Senate Democrat present, the State Senate won’t have quorum and is unable to consider Governor Scott Walker’s proposal to curtail the fat-cat labor unions.

If anything, the Democrats fleeing the State shows just how uncommitted they are to getting the State’s finances under control.

Not only have Senate Democrats effectively shut down the State Senate, but Big Labor has shut down many public schools in Madison. Many teachers called in sick so that they could go protest Governor Walker’s proposal at the state capitol.

How ironic is it that the very people that feel they need more taxpayer money would deprive taxpayers that are already paying a princely sum to these Big Labor leeches of their child’s education. Disgusting.

The DNC and the AFL-CIO should be ashamed of what they are doing in Madison. If anyone needed evidence of the greed that Big Labor has towards government coffers, let the situation in Madison be your exampl

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

We're watching it in California, and most of the fools are saying it can't happen here.

Hopefully it won't happen here until after I retire, if ever.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

My opinion is that if the Dems have left the state, then they have quit their jobs and need to be replaced. Hold special elections to replace them.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Don't have the details, but there was talk on the radio that the state senate majority leader had to leave his home for all the protestors.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Ohio is getting on this train too.

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The campagin flyers of the protesters are just lol'able. Crosshairs galore!

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

but but.. new era of civility.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I love that concept.

"Fiscal responsibility for the sake of the future of the state, nah, it can't happen here. Not in the People's Republic of Kalifornia!"

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I'm honestly very curious to learn peoples' opinions about this sort of thing. A little background...

I work for the University of Tennessee; no secret there really, I've probably posted enough allusions to it over the years that it's easy enough for anyone paying attention to figure out "hey those four line segments at right angles must make a square", you know? Anyhoo, employee of State U, employee of the State of Tennessee.

The wage system here is wholly borked. Jobs at the university pay less pretty much across the board when compared to other institutions - peer universities, equivalent private sector jobs, etc. This is somewhat mitigated by pretty darn good health insurance, state pension, access to free/deeply discounted higher ed. at any Tennessee Board of Regents school, and other perks (boatloads of leave time being a good one - I get to participate actively in the kids' lives). But the wages themselves? Not competitive.

Moreover, there's no merit system to speak of. Good performance doesn't get you a raise; there's no mechanism for it. Good performance doesn't get you a promotion. You know what gets you a raise? Legislature. I think it's been 4 years since any Tennessee employee got so much as a 2% cost of living adjustment. Four years of wage freezes. In the grand scheme of things? That's fine. I have a good job in a stable environment. However, when the monetary value of your livelihood is assessed by some comparatively anonymous legislators hundreds of miles away, it changes one's perspective on the merits of collective bargaining.

Honestly it's a weird situation to be in. In general, I'm not particularly fond of the concepts of unions. I think, as many here do, that after a certain point (the addressing of a particular issue) organizations tend to continue to exist merely for the perpetuation and growth of the organization itself, and tend to promote their own interests with no regard for any broader well-being. However, given the way the state addresses wages, I've taken to just conceding that anything that works in my favor toward approaching a more competitive wage just can't be wholly a bad thing. Is that wrong? Maybe, but then again moral platitudes don't pay my bills, and I like it here.

Now I know that there are plenty of folks who would be quick to say that that's all just entirely indicative of the problems we really need to face, and that the state should just get the hell out of businesses that it can't be competitive in. And sure, we've had the whole "devaluation of higher ed" discussion too. But anyway, given a real-world example of what specific goals collective bargaining sometimes attempts to address in a state government rather than private sector environment, I'm curious to know what you all think. Scrap State U if it can't compete? Raise taxes 'til it can? Somewhere in between?

How is taking away people's pay and benefits and making them dependent on the State at a higher overall cost fiscally responsible? It isn't. It is fiscally irresponsible and a poor business plan.

You equate taking away the benefits that encourage good people to stay in an otherwise noncompetitive job with fiscal responsibility. In most of the states, mine included, the real problem lies with the legislature passing pork project after welfare project after pork project and spending money the state doesn't have. The distraction that the State workers, their pay and benefits are the problem is a lie told over and over again, especially when unemployment is high. Fiscal responsibility begins and ends with the legislature. They hold the purse-strings and they are the ones who need to budget within the state's means. We are a distraction to keep your eyes off the real culprits.

When collective bargaining goes and the pay and benefits inevitably sink to below sustenance level the basic reason to make a career out of public service goes and the only people that will be there doing the job are people who can't get a job anywhere else. Is that really who you want processing your paperwork? Teaching your children? Working in emergency services?

You are as big a fool as anyone you are pointing your indignant little fingers at. You follow the lead of pundits whose job it is to stir up trouble where little or none exists.

When you rail against the unions, who exactly are you railing against? The employees of the unions or the people they represent, the state or federal or corporation/company employed members who make up the unions? Or both?

Yes, a few unions have gotten out of hand and the pay and benefits they secured drove their companies out of business. This is not true of every union or unions as a tool of organized labor would have failed long ago. Yes it is partly, even a significant part, those union's fault, but the business owners signed that contract too. In the context of the state workers, the Governor's team negotiates and the legislature approves, at least here in California. Our union agreed to some significant take backs this year, not because we wanted to, but because we recognized the money isn't there. The contract received a huge pass vote from the members, not because we were happy about the take backs, but because we understood it was necessary.

If you want to make an impact on the fiscal responsibility of your state, take the legislators to task. Stop voting in the people who get it wrong. Publicize the pork and the unnecessary spending they do. Stop beating up on the people who are hired to implement the commands of the people who spend your money. We're just trying to hold down a job and survive like the rest of you.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Michael, you've been at the kool-aid. I'm sorry this will hurt you, but you are wrong.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

No, I'm not. The legislature is the responsible party, at least here in California. Beating up on union workers is a distraction to keep people from realizing it.

Try answering some of the questions.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

The legislature is responsible to the people, and beholden to them. The legislature has no authority to involve itself in contracts that exceed the length of those whom have been voted the power to make decisions.

Those contracts are invalid.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Huh, looks like that touched a nerve. I'll take a look at this tomorrow, when I've got some time.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Union gets politician X elected, especially on slow election cycle.

Elected offical X gets Union more bennies and pay.

Union increaces in size and donates more money to official X, it's the cycle of life and I am going to enjoy watching states go under.

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Rynar, under which State's constitution are you basing that statement on? If that were true, why would any rational businessman ever sign a contract that crossed over one legislatures term to the next ones? Yet business people do this all the time. General Services here in California has many multi-year contracts. The lease for the building my Department is in is a ten-year lease. According to you that contract would be illegal.

I don't think the government or the businesses that deal with them recognize what you state as real.

So, where do you get that bit of knowledge? What backs it up?

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

http://www.breitbart.tv/field-trip-teac ... yre-there/

I wonder if they get class credit?

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

That contract should be illegal. Businesses make contracts around their own money, law-makers use tax payer money and are only voted the authority to make decisions for a finite period of time.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I know this is a popular line of thought, esp as it applies to Obamacares "automatic" funding provision. At least in my opinion, its a logical thought.

As to the folks in unions- I was one for a long time. Every election we would get "educated" on canidates and told either pull the D lever or we would lose everything. And guys would- not paying attention to the canidates stance on things. Guys who liked to hunt electing an anti hunting guy, pro gun guys electing anti gunners etc. So while I feel for the union members, they in general reaped the benefits of their influence when times were in their favor- now they need to deal with the reality that they were sold a deal that their "guys in office" could never deliver on.

I'm mixed on public service unions. Vital service and public saftey jobs need a common voice but also should never be allowed to strike. Look what happened in NYC when just the trash guys "slow walked" the snowstorm. People died. I appreciate their need for certain items in their contract- but don't take the job if you can't deal with the possible highs and lows while it gets hashed out. My mother is dealing with it atm (police union).

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Honestly, I think a lot of the animosity towards unions comes from the concept of collective anything. The way CBAs are structured today leaves no room to reward or redress individual performance. I strongly believe that employees need a way to pool their collective labor supply to get better wage and benefit structures but I abhor the idea that whether I work my *** off or slack off all day that I get paid the same. If you think about it unions are a direct stab at the heart of the American dream in that individual effort is not connected to individual success under the most common CBAs. Instead it becomes a war of attrition: outlast your coworkers and regardless of merit, effort or talents you will rise.

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Hopwin: that's exactly why I left the IBEW and went to a non union telecom job.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Micheal:
I'll deal with the more "factual" arguments you present first.


If you consider limiting union negotiated raises to CPI unless approved by the public and increasing what members pay for pension and healthcare by 8% "taking away people's pay and benefits", you've had too much kool-aid.


Note the above; I equate making plans so you can pay people without going bankrupt with fiscal responsibility. The if a business were run like the State, it would go out of business and everyone would have their pay and benefits taken away. That's the uncertainty of working for a private entity. The State can't go out of business, but it can pass laws limiting what it will pay. That's the uncertainty of working for the State.


It is apparent that some of those pork and welfare projects are the Public Union contracts.


In WI they are doing just that with this bill.


I don't "rail against the unions".

I believe that the short-sightedness of the union bosses who demand these contracts is as much to blame as the union members who vote lock-step for whom their union bosses tell them to vote, and of course, the final part of the picture are the politicians who pander to the unions. None of these people have even the slightest concern for their employers welfare.


That is what the folks in WI did. That is why this bill will pass once the D's have balls enough to show up for work instead of hiding in IL.

Now, to the less factual parts of your diatribe.



No one is being forced to become a dependent of the state here, unless you equate becoming dependent on the state with needing the state to become a swollen over-reaching bureaucracy in order to retain their jobs. Then again, that's already the case.

The instance the OP is highlighting is one which the people employed will still get raises based on CPI and will get more if their employers deem them worth it. Increasing someone's contribution towards pay for life and health benefits for life by 8% surely won't force them onto the government's teat. My share of my (non-lifetime) health benefits increased 20%, as did many peoples' this past year, and those go away when I leave my job, just like the pay I receive for doing the job. That's not the reality state employees have.



Pay that is the equivalent of and benefits that far exceed the private sector with little-to-no chance of being fired for incompetence is by no means a "non-competitive job".



Since people more knowledgeable about budgets in CA have stated that 80 percent of state, county and city budget deficits are due to public employee costs, it would be disingenuous to characterize the situation with public sector employees as a "distraction" and outright laughable to characterize it as a "lie".



How exactly does one go from paying 8% more towards lifetime benefits and annual pay raises set at CPI with additional raises based on the satisfaction of the employer lead you to the oh-so heart-rending image of "below sustenance level"?



I don't want the state to have a virtual monopoly on teaching or paperwork generation, heck, I would rather they weren't involved at all. You'll have to be more specific on "emergency services", as some of what would be considered emergency services are within the state's purview, since police and firefighters are exempt from this bill, I guess that little scare-tactic won't work.



It's good to know that you are so well-informed about how I get information and who I listen to. Who are the pundits I follow again? From what you've written here, it is apparent you have no knowledge of the specifics of the issue, perhaps you should inform yourself before casting aspersions on others who have already sought out such knowledge.

I left CA as the writing on the wall was there; the state was going to continue circling the bowl for quite some time before drastic measures would be taken to right the ship. I didn't want to be around for that. So, now I'm in a state that my vote for fiscal responsibility will not be automatically over-ruled by those only interested in taking, and I pay much less in taxes, have a house that is 250% the size of the one I own in CA, for 75% of the price. In exchange for my property taxes I have access to schools for my children that are better run, better maintained and light years better at performing their function of educating children than the ones in CA. Yup, I'm a fool.



Just following orders, eh?

It's sad that you hope that changes aren't made to address the long-term fiscal sustainability of your state until after you retire. I would think that someone who speaks in such glowing terms about where they live and appreciates the many laudable aspects of his state would actually work toward the success of that state and its citizens. Those citizens being his employers, he should not be hoping that the inevitable austerity measures are put off, even though putting them off will make them much more draconian, until after his own nest is feathered for life. Then again, when dealing with such hard-core union members, it's always the same response: Don't touch my benefits - tax someone else to pay for them.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I only have the vaguest sense of what you do for a living Michael but some people might consider that to be "pork" as well. One man's pork is another man's career and just as you point to "pork" to be trimmed from the budget so too might someone on the outside point to your projects/departments/etc and say cut trim that "pork".

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While I agree with this generally, it is not entirely true. I am union, but 60% of my raise pool is merit based. It is, however, fairly difficult for someone to be fired for work performance. It is very easy to be fired for surfing porn on company equipment.

I think the major sticking point is not that the government wants to cut pay/benefits, but that their main goal is to kill the union and that they will go for that even if it costs more.