The Glade 4.0

Public education isn't voluntary since most parents don't have other options. There isn't much demand for good instructors of something that isn't voluntary, it's almost that simple. Also culturally we don't care about learning the subjects that are taught in school.

Yeah, ok, but that doesn't really answer my question. It seems you are implying that yes, undergraduate degree is adequate, provided that program was of high quality?

You didn't ask any questions, Arathain. You made an assertion; I responded to said assertion with experiential evidence. As for your assertion that an undergraduate degree is adequate, I will point out that promotions and pay raises for the majority of teachers are linked to continuing education. Masters Degrees and Education Specialist Degrees generally increase a teacher's salary by 45-60% upon acquisition. But, that doesn't matter, since our teachers rare know the material they're teaching anymore.

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yeah, ok, let me ask more clearly then.

What do you think the qualifications should be, on paper, for various teaching positions in public school?

I'd start with a Masters Degree in the subject they're teaching, not in Education. In fact, I'd pretty much remove accreditation from every Education Degree program in the nation, because they're producing indoctrinated idiots.

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Wouldn't you be concerned that this would cause a lack of teachers and larger class sizes?

As opposed to a glut of people certified to teach high school math that didn't even have to pass college algebra?

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Related tangent: When did daycare workers start referring to themselves as "teachers" and why isn't it illegal?

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From what I've seen, the opposite is far more likely. There are a lot of very well-qualified pseudo-retirees with expertise in their field who would be glad to teach in the public school system if they weren't automatically disqualified for not having a state teaching license. And in order to get one of those, they would have to go back to college for dozens of hours of largely irrelevant Education courses. It's particularly frustrating in technical fields. When you have a PhD in Software Engineering, double masters in math and the same, and 30+ years of experience as a high-level programmer for a fortune-500 company, it's pretty ridiculous (not to mention insulting) to have the state tell you that you aren't qualified to teach an intro to comp sci course or high school algebra.

Somewhere along the way, people started to buy in to the myth that education is a mystical art and that only those who have learned its mysterious ways are able to effectively teach. So powerful is this great magic, in fact, that it can even enable you teach material you do not know. Anymore, becoming a teacher has a great deal less to do with whether you are actually qualified to teach the subject, but rather whether you've been ordained into the Holy American Educational Priesthood.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Dude, you seriously do not need a masters degree to teach algebra, or any high school or lower math class for that matter.

A case could be made for SOME other disciplines, but overall I'd say it's unnecessary, costly, and will generate a lack of qualified teachers.

You're getting a litte edulitist IMO.

And there is certainly no reason why an undergrad degree is not adequate for teaching below high school.

Where did Khross say a masters degree should be require to teach algebra?

Does passing college algebra imply attaining a master's degree in your world, Arathain?

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I did say the base requirement to teach should be a Masters in the discipline taught, Kaffis. But, as things currently stand, people are teaching history from text books that are largely inaccurate; math with methods that don't actually work; and science that's horribly flawed. The education system in America is failing because we think you need degrees in Education Science instead of degrees in the subject you want to teach.

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I'm not quite sure how to respond to this as I have no idea where you came up with this from my post.

I'm on board with that. Would you agree that an undergrad degree would be adequate for most teaching positions if the undergraduate programs were improved?

Define improved, because at most places a Bachelor's degree is largely a repeat of high school with 2 semesters of something like my Freshman year at university.

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Current curriculum, subject conveyed.

EDIT: Or, minor adjustments to curriculum, subject conveyed.

Well said.

Yup, I can personally attest to that frustration. I went back to school with the express intent to become a teacher, and found out that I would have to spend a minimum of a year taking classes about becoming a teacher. Needless to say, I wasn't about to waste a year doing that (above and beyond the tuition, fees and lost income I would have had to sacrifice to do it) and walked the hell out.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

...

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

Discipline is not incorporated for the most part. This we do mostly by experience.
Yet everyone thinks it is so easy. Takes years of experience.

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"None is more important, none more legitimate, than that of rendering the people safe as they are the
ultimate guardians of their own liberty."- Thomas Jefferson

"Yeah, I'm rehearsing my poker face. I don't handle stupid well. *sigh*" - Farsky

It was your poor choice of which of Khross's posts to quote. I had forgotten about the other one, having read it in another browsing session. I came off too strongly then, and from a tack that had no real merit. I'm sorry for ruffling feathers there.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

This isn't a blanket condemnation, obviously. It's a statement that this is the outcome the system encourages.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Totally off-topic, but is this correct usage of the word "anymore"? I've seen it used this way with increasing frequency in the last couple of years, and it just sounds wrong to me.

Yes, RD, it is. It's an inverted construction relative to what you're used to seeing. Move the adverbial phrase to the end and it would be more familiar.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

It's actually a more proper usage of the term, particularly since Stathol used it as a transitional adverb.

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