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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:59 pm 
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Near Ground
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WTF.

http://j.mp/gfVfGz


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 pm 
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Bull Moose
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From the corporate angle, the liability of having your associates actions resulting in a serious wound or a fatal injury is way more expensive than letting the perpetrator walk. The policy is there to protect lives and well being of both the employees and the customers and to keep insurance rates lower.

I don't think these guys really had much choice, they did what they had to do, and did it well. Unfortunately, their very success made them a liability in that they are now an inspiration for fellow employees to disregard the policy and do likewise, unless they are fired for being 'heroes.'

It is one of the damned if you do, damned if you don't moments.

For the corporation it makes sense, for the guys on the floor it is hard to understand. We stopped the guy, saved the asset from being lost and turned him over to the cops as soon as they got there, what is the problem? We were doing our jobs.

No, policy states when the gun comes out you disengage and let him go. Do otherwise and you're fired.

No, I don't like it either, but what if the perp had shot one or two of them? Store closed for hours (no profit) while the police investigate, employees injured or dead, and what if a bullet went through the wall and into the chest of the 300 pound grandma walking by?

This isn't about what the guys did right, it is about what could go wrong, and will eventually go wrong if people keep disregarding the policy.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Pretty messed up, but if it were a violation of the policy, the firing is justified. They probably should have just ignored the violation, but it's their store, I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:39 pm 
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pbp Hack
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Pretty messed up, but if it were a violation of the policy, the firing is justified. They probably should have just ignored the violation, but it's their store, I guess.


Pretty much. It's easy to feel they've overreacted since the story ends well. I can't help but wonder if they were people (no necessary anyone on this board) blaming Wal-Mart if the headline was "Armed Shoplifter Kills Wal-Mart Employees."

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:59 pm 
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They don't have a right to their jobs, don't see a problem here.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:10 am 
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The Dancing Cat
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Rorinthas wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Pretty messed up, but if it were a violation of the policy, the firing is justified. They probably should have just ignored the violation, but it's their store, I guess.


Pretty much. It's easy to feel they've overreacted since the story ends well. I can't help but wonder if they were people (no necessary anyone on this board) blaming Wal-Mart if the headline was "Armed Shoplifter Kills Wal-Mart Employees."

Which headline would be worse?
"Armed Shoplifter Kills Wal-Mart Employees."
"Armed Shoplifter Kills Wal-Mart Shoppers while Security Watches."

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:33 pm 
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pbp Hack
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I'm sorry these people were "security"? I just assumed they were cashiers or floor personnel. If their job was security then one wonders why they were not appropriate armed and authorized to deal with threats.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:21 pm 
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The Dancing Cat
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Rorinthas wrote:
I'm sorry these people were "security"? I just assumed they were cashiers or floor personnel. If their job was security then one wonders why they were not appropriate armed and authorized to deal with threats.

They seemed well-trained at least:
Quote:
Asset protection coordinator Poulsen met him at the door, and ushered him back to the loss prevention room to confront him. Not long after, Ray and Richins — both asset protection associates — filtered in, followed by Stewart, an assistant manager, to witness.

Moments after he pulled out the small laptop, the workers say Longton also pulled out a handgun and charged toward the closed office door. Ray, Richins and Stewart were in the way. He grabbed Stewart as his way to get out.

“He looked right at me and said, 'The gun is cocked. C’mon guys, just let me go. I don’t want to do this,'” Shawn Ray recalled.

Instantly, Shawn Ray and Justin Richins kicked into gear, spinning the gunman around. Lori Poulsen ripped the gun away and secured it. They all held on to the man until police arrived minutes later.


When I worked at Kohl's we had similar policies in effect. It is the opposite of not negotiating with terrorists, essentially the policy is if they might be dangerous let them do whatever the f*** they want.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:57 pm 
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I've never worked in loss preventiont, but I think it's stretch to call them security.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:47 am 
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The Dancing Cat
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Rorinthas wrote:
I've never worked in loss preventiont, but I think it's stretch to call them security.

But... but... they have walkie-talkies, handcuffs and video monitors! Plus a natural affinity for coffee and pastries!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Have you guys ever heard of Mall Ninjas? Basically overzealous mall security.

Quote:
Gecko45 writes:
Thanks to everybody for the help. I am now thinking that the best thing to do is to have my wife make an “undervest” with pouches front and rear for the additional plates. This would let me have three plates in front (probably too hot and two in back. What I’m also asking her to do is to sew in a sleeve for an ASP collapsible baton. Right now I’m taping the ASP to my right calf (the left calf is where I have my G27).It’s okay for me to talk about my job, as long as I’m not specific. I am the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas. [And here the myth begins”] Although there are typically between fifteen and twenty normal security officers working the beat there, we decided a while ago that it would be best to have a specilized force for violent individuals. We use modified electric vehicles and can be anywhere on a given floor within eight and a half minutes.Naturally, the regular security people are unarmed. We “RTFers”, by arrangement with the local police, carry high-strength OC spray and batons. If we have a full tactical alert and permission from the local LEOs we also have a Mossberg 500 with less-lethal rounds and two K-frame Smith .38s loaded with 158gr. LRN.Basically, the situation is that we get the call, we lock up the situation, put everything five by five, and cordon the area until the local authorities arrive. We’re cops, we just don’t get the glory. [Somehow, I imagine the real police wouldn’t agree”]I am not permitted to carry Glocks on duty; however, when my wife picks me up from work I strap on the “Deadly Duo” of a 27 and 23, each with Bar-Sto .357 bbl.I am writing a proposal to replace our current Mossberg-Smith armament with the following:

3) MP5K-PDW with red-dot sights;
2) G36 rifles using SS109 rounds;
3) Glock practical tacticles in .357 Sig
1) PSG-1 using Fed Gold Medal .308
1) Starlight scope for the PSG-1 in case we lose power in the building.
3) Glock 27 backup guns
3) Kahr P-9 holdouts
I think this would make us capable of facing nearly any situation. I’ll let you know what the management says!!!


http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:40 am 
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Oh my Mall ninjas are the source of most of tacticool sales.

Please rescue the governors daughter from mall rapists oh level 3a wearing dudes on segeways!

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