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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:38 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
France had plenty of interests in Iraq. France didn't want to lose the semi-exclusive deal they had with Iraq alongside a few other European countries that were basically ignoring the sanctions. Overthrowing the government, and thus the sanctions, meant that they'd have to compete with the whole world for the oil.


I still place a big slab of blame on Chirac for making the Iraq war necessary. He did everything in his power to protect Saddam and I believe Saddam thought he'd get away yet again with maybe some marginally more harshly worded sanctions because of that support.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:17 am 
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‎"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."
—Senator Barack Obama


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:22 am 
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A) Obama is wrong. The only thing that says the President cannot do that is the War Powers Act, a law of questionable Constitutionality at best.

B) Even the war powers act only limits that action to a short duration, 60 or 90 days (I don't recall exactly which at the moment)

C) Obama's definition of "unilateral" almost certainly does not include action authorized by the U.N., which, while disturbing, would still not make him inconsistent

D) The Senate does not interpret the Constitution, so what he said has very little meaning beyond consistency with himself. That's not even that big of a deal; he may have changed his mind in the 2+ years he's been in the White House.

E) When and in what context did that quote occur?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:26 am 
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It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:59 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.


It does not make him a hypocrite. This is not a unilateral action.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:02 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.


It does not make him a hypocrite. This is not a unilateral action.


I don't think that he meant unilateral in the context of foreign treaties.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.


It does not necessarily make him a hypocrite. People can and do change their opinion. You would be more correct if you said "it makes him look like a hypocrite" or "it is likely he is a hypocite."

I'd say the Nobel Peace Prize is pretty much water over the damn and irrelevant to the Libya situation.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well, something's wrong with that quote, in that case. He wasn't a senator at the time of the Iraq invasion. Oh, wait, he was in the Illinois State Senate at that time. So, not quite the same as plain ol' Senator.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Aethien wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well, something's wrong with that quote, in that case. He wasn't a senator at the time of the Iraq invasion. Oh, wait, he was in the Illinois State Senate at that time. So, not quite the same as plain ol' Senator.


Iran, not Iraq. Better called Persia actually.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:02 pm 
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Yeah, Persia not Babylon, and Byzantium is right out.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:30 pm 
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"Iran" is how you say "Persia" in their language.

Also the Wikipedia article for "Iran" and "Persia" is the same.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Thanks a lot guys, now I've got this stuck in my head.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:53 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, now I've got this stuck in my head.


Woohoo! I had it in my head too.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:22 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
"Iran" is how you say "Persia" in their language.


Really, "Iran" is how you say "Persia" in, wait for it - "Persian" (aka Farsi)? Your knowledge is stunning, and your confidence is dumbfounding.
Why on earth would you say it's "better called 'Persia'", when it's called "Iran" in the West (where you live), and you believe it's called "Iran", "in their language"?

Actually, "Iran" in "Persian" is "Ērān".

Lex Luthor wrote:
Also the Wikipedia article for "Iran" and "Persia" is the same.


You know I really do understand how you can write code. You sound just like a bot.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:46 am 
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darksiege wrote:
Stathol wrote:
Thanks a lot guys, now I've got this stuck in my head.


Woohoo! I had it in my head too.


Then my work here is done.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:00 am 
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Vindicarre wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Actually, "Iran" in "Persian" is "Ērān".

Lex Luthor wrote:
Also the Wikipedia article for "Iran" and "Persia" is the same.


You know I really do understand how you can write code. You sound just like a bot.


Are you serious? That's nearly the same thing. And then you have to personally attack me? You have issues.

I think that Persia sounds cooler because of the history so that's why I said that. Also if you look at any map before the 1930s it's called Persia.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:14 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
You know I really do understand how you can write code. You sound just like a bot.


Are you serious? That's nearly the same thing. And then you have to personally attack me? You have issues.

I think that Persia sounds cooler because of the history so that's why I said that. Also if you look at any map before the 1930s it's called Persia.


In the late 1400's, America was known as "You'll fall off the edge of the Earth! Stop! Turn back!". Something tells me your methods are flawed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:26 am 
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Dude, wikipedia says it, so it's fact.

afk to edit the grassy knoll wiki.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:35 am 
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Rynar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Vindicarre wrote:
You know I really do understand how you can write code. You sound just like a bot.


Are you serious? That's nearly the same thing. And then you have to personally attack me? You have issues.

I think that Persia sounds cooler because of the history so that's why I said that. Also if you look at any map before the 1930s it's called Persia.


In the late 1400's, America was known as "You'll fall off the edge of the Earth! Stop! Turn back!". Something tells me your methods are flawed.


The name Persia was arbitrarily changed to "Iran" around 1930. There was no good reason and no regime change even or expansion or contraction of territory. Look it up.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Aethien wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
It occurred some time back in the context of attacking Iran. I agree that he isn't correct, but it still makes him a hypocrite and I don't think he's worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well, something's wrong with that quote, in that case. He wasn't a senator at the time of the Iraq invasion. Oh, wait, he was in the Illinois State Senate at that time. So, not quite the same as plain ol' Senator.


Iran, not Iraq. Better called Persia actually.

D'oh, sorry, completely missed that. Don't mind me, carry on.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Lex is somewhat right about Persia/Iran...and somewhat wrong. Before WWII the Shah petitioned the world to use the Farsi word for their country, Iran. Persia was how it was known to the rest of the world, named so by the Greeks, after the name Persians gave to their language and their people, the "Parsa."

If you want to get technical, the people of Iran are Persians, not Iranians, but the country is Iran, not Persia.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Talya wrote:
Lex is somewhat right about Persia/Iran...and somewhat wrong. Before WWII the Shah petitioned the world to use the Farsi word for their country, Iran. Persia was how it was known to the rest of the world, named so by the Greeks, after the name Persians gave to their language and their people, the "Parsa."

If you want to get technical, the people of Iran are Persians, not Iranians, but the country is Iran, not Persia.


So Egypt should be called something else too? Greeks don't call Greece by the English word for it either.

I'm actually 100% right here.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Greeks don't call Greece by the English word for it either.


They did when I was there.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Greeks don't call Greece by the English word for it either.


They did when I was there.


I don't think they use it with eachother.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Greeks don't call Greece by the English word for it either.


They did when I was there.


I don't think they use it with eachother.


What, you don't think I blended in seamlessly?


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