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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:40 am 
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I don't think an animal will get away or put up a good fight once a .22 round passes through it's brain, but I've never hunted before.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 am 
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I enjoy seeing where each persons "line" is in regards to what is a reasonable amount of prepping/firearms/ammo etc.

Hence why ill never ever support any "common sense" legislation. One mans reasonable measure is entirely unreasonable to another.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
I don't think an animal will get away or put up a good fight once a .22 round passes through it's brain, but I've never hunted before.


Canadian opinion: to put a .22 in a bear's brain, you pretty much have to get it in the eye. It's not penetrating its skull. If you live in rural canada, it's a good idea to own something more powerful, even without a collapse requiring survivalist skills.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:44 am 
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Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I don't think an animal will get away or put up a good fight once a .22 round passes through it's brain, but I've never hunted before.


To put a .22 in a bear's brain, you pretty much have to get it in the eye. It's not penetrating its skull.


I don't buy it. I'd need to see a Mythbusters.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:44 am 
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For a seperation of fact vs fiction when it comes to ballistics, just google Box O Truth. They do various real world tests.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:47 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
In your ideology, is it acceptable for a Muslim to walk into the U.S. with a small nuke in his backpack? Just curious.
There's a difference between ownership and use with premeditated malice, Lex.

RangerDave:

A .22 LR is sufficiently deadly for just about anything you want to shoot anywhere on the planet. There are a few mammals and reptiles where it might have difficulty piercing their skin or bones in place, but you're not likely to shoot them for survival. That said, if you're really concerned, there are a few .22 Mag rifles will also shoot .22 LR and .22 Winchester (my personal favorite, being as most .22 Win is center fire).

Taly:

You don't need a BFG or Rocket Launcher. And a real life Rocket Jump will probably add you to the list of Darwin Candidates.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:48 am 
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What if you couldn't prove the malice?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:52 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Talya wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
I don't think an animal will get away or put up a good fight once a .22 round passes through it's brain, but I've never hunted before.


To put a .22 in a bear's brain, you pretty much have to get it in the eye. It's not penetrating its skull.


I don't buy it. I'd need to see a Mythbusters.


There are documented cases of Grissly bears taking multiple larger caliber bullets to the head and them bouncing off the skull. Bear skulls are THICK!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:53 am 
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Aizle wrote:
There are documented cases of Grissly bears taking multiple larger caliber bullets to the head and them bouncing off the skull. Bear skulls are THICK!


I'm sure there's thousands of undocumented cases where their skulls were pierced.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:54 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
What if you couldn't prove the malice?


What do we do when there is an absence of proof?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:55 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
What if you couldn't prove the malice?


What do we do when there is an absence of proof?


Well in this situation it would be allowing a Muslim with a backpack nuke to enter the country. Unless of course the simple possession of a weapon, or affiliation with a mainstream religion, is an indication of malice.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:55 am 
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Hannibal wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
What if you couldn't prove the malice?


What do we do when there is an absence of proof?


And here in a nutshell is why Libertarians will never, and I mean NEVER actually get anywhere in government.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
What if you couldn't prove the malice?
What do we do when there is an absence of proof?
And here in a nutshell is why Libertarians will never, and I mean NEVER actually get anywhere in government.
And here is why Libertarians think Liberals are jackbooted, knob slobbering fascists ...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
There are documented cases of Grissly bears taking multiple larger caliber bullets to the head and them bouncing off the skull. Bear skulls are THICK!
There are lots of factors in determining what a bullet does when it hits its target. The rounds could have been tumbling, could have hit a ridge at a weird angle, following the path of least resistance, etc. That said, a .22 LR is bullet enough for just about everything short of a rhinoceros.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Khross wrote:
For survivalist and self-defense purposes, the magic number of weapons is 3, as that happens to be the amount of firearms you can reasonably carry on your person with appropriate stores of ammunition without being over encumbered.


Four shall thou not have, neither have thou two, excepting that thou then purchase a third. Five is right out.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Khross wrote:
And here is why Libertarians think Liberals are jackbooted, knob slobbering fascists ...


So what requirements (if any) would you place on a private individual before allowing them to own any of the mass destruction weapons that were listed?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Khross wrote:
For survivalist and self-defense purposes, the magic number of weapons is 3, as that happens to be the amount of firearms you can reasonably carry on your person with appropriate stores of ammunition without being over encumbered.


Four shall thou not have, neither have thou two, excepting that thou then purchase a third. Five is right out.


LOL. Damn, apparently I need to get rid of a firearm. :cry:

Actually 2, as I don't own a shotgun.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Aizle wrote:
There are documented cases of Grissly bears taking multiple larger caliber bullets to the head and them bouncing off the skull. Bear skulls are THICK!
There are lots of factors in determining what a bullet does when it hits its target. The rounds could have been tumbling, could have hit a ridge at a weird angle, following the path of least resistance, etc. That said, a .22 LR is bullet enough for just about everything short of a rhinoceros.


Oh, I completely agree.

However, one has to be a VERY good shot to seriously contemplate hunting a large animal with a .22 LR. There is a very good reason those larger calibers exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:11 pm 
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There's also a reason why 14 megapixel point and shoot cameras exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Khross wrote:
Aizle wrote:
And here in a nutshell is why Libertarians will never, and I mean NEVER actually get anywhere in government.
And here is why Libertarians think Liberals are jackbooted, knob slobbering fascists ...


I'd like to note that I didn't post that because it's what the liberal camp thinks. Frankly, you aren't going to get the vast majority of the public in the US, or frankly the world of any political persuation to agree with allowing anyone access to those weapons.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Libertarianism is not ok when you can circle someone's property with a private road, and then rightfully shoot them when they trespass to escape.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Khross wrote:
That said, a .22 LR is bullet enough for just about everything short of a rhinoceros.
No, it isn't. It may be possible to kill animals such as moose, bears, deer, and such with a .22 LR, but it requires exceedingly good aim and favorable circumstances. I am not familiar with the hunting laws in other states, but in Missouri you can not use a .22 for deer hunting because of the high percentage of shots that will fail to kill the animal.

Now, phrased in terms of, say, a bear - the fact that a bear will die of blood loss an hour after the attack doesn't help you when the bear is attacking you.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Well, you can use a .22, but it must be a centerfire .22.
MDC wrote:
Methods allowed
Methods allowed during all portions of the firearms deer season, except the muzzleloader portion.
centerfire pistol, revolver or rifle using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammunition includes lead bullets, copper bullets and bullets made of other material designed to expand.
shotgun (including .410) with slugs only
air-powered gun, .40 caliber or larger, charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank, or air compressor)
a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearm .40 caliber or larger and capable of firing only a single projectile at one discharge; in-lines and scopes are allowed
multiple-barreled muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms and/or muzzleloading or cap-and-ball handguns, including revolvers, .40 caliber or larger are allowed and may be carried in addition to a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball rifle
a longbow, compound bow or recurve bow of any draw weight; hand-held string releasing devices, illuminated sights, scopes and quickpoint sights are allowed
crossbow
atlatl, which is defined as a rod or narrow board-like device used to launch, through a throwing motion of the arm, a dart 5 to 8 feet in length.


However, in the event of a void of governing bodies, there's nothing stopping a .22 LR from being perfectly legitimate. Mostly it just requires the good aim portion, not so much favorable circumstances.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Libertarianism is not ok when you can circle someone's property with a private road, and then rightfully shoot them when they trespass to escape.


Is it already the time in the thread where we have to run around from post to post correcting ignorant statements? Damn thought it would be in a page or two.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:55 pm 
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shuyung wrote:
Well, you can use a .22, but it must be a centerfire .22.
MDC wrote:
Methods allowed
Methods allowed during all portions of the firearms deer season, except the muzzleloader portion.
centerfire pistol, revolver or rifle using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammunition includes lead bullets, copper bullets and bullets made of other material designed to expand.
shotgun (including .410) with slugs only
air-powered gun, .40 caliber or larger, charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank, or air compressor)
a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearm .40 caliber or larger and capable of firing only a single projectile at one discharge; in-lines and scopes are allowed
multiple-barreled muzzleloading or cap-and-ball firearms and/or muzzleloading or cap-and-ball handguns, including revolvers, .40 caliber or larger are allowed and may be carried in addition to a muzzleloading or cap-and-ball rifle
a longbow, compound bow or recurve bow of any draw weight; hand-held string releasing devices, illuminated sights, scopes and quickpoint sights are allowed
crossbow
atlatl, which is defined as a rod or narrow board-like device used to launch, through a throwing motion of the arm, a dart 5 to 8 feet in length.


However, in the event of a void of governing bodies, there's nothing stopping a .22 LR from being perfectly legitimate. Mostly it just requires the good aim portion, not so much favorable circumstances.


Don't F with the guy who can kill a deer with an Atlatl. Saw a guy at an SCA event who was quite good. Could hit a 6ft target at 100yds consistantly. BTW check out Joreg Sprave- he makes some wicked slingshots that would put some .22s to shame.

On top of my rifles I'm pricing out a supressed air rifle for small game.

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