The Glade 4.0

Gun control and the second amendment

As passed by the Congress:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Have at it.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Gun control does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. However, it certainly reduces the ability of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves, and the ability of the populace at large to threaten a tyrannical oppressor.

I am against gun control, but it's not a major issue for me.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I agree with what Taly said. I'm not sure how the whole individual citizens with weapons of mass destruction argument works. I don't think the founders envisioned anything like nuclear weapons or mustard gas, and I have no idea if in 1790 if it was legal for a private citizen to own a cannon. One could argue "arms" vs. "weapons" could be meant to restrict it to items of a personal nature. Perhaps it's something I need to look into.

So barring some kind of reality adjustment regarding WMD (which could/should be done by amendment) I think the amendment should be enforced as "not be infriged."

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

After a brief researching Personally I like this article on the whole WMD argument.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/668387/posts

Even a cannon (really the worst weapon the founders had knowledge of) would be acceptable under these criteria

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

It makes guns more difficult to acquire for everybody actually. Buying stuff on the black market is expensive.

Yes, but generally speaking criminals are more adept at it than Joe six-pack.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

As well as more willing to break the law.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

If you outlaw doughnuts, only outlaws will have them.

_________________
"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I doubt it. Most criminals are illiterate and stupid. I didn't say it was anywhere near impossible for criminals to get guns, just that it's harder when they are controlled more.

Khyber Pass.
Northern Ireland

Gun control by the State will only limit the access by those that in reality, we as a society wouls want to have this responsibility. Just like a lock will only keep out honest people.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Lex, As a software guy I'm sure you understand the concept of computer security and how it won't stop a smart enough individual with enough desire and resources. Some times all the extra measures do is annoy the honest folk right?

Perhaps we can make them look elsewhere or do something stupid and get caught, but if they want into you specific system you are doomed.

Gun control is no different.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

There's lots of dumb or not seriously motivated individuals who would be prevented from getting guns with gun laws. I never said it would stop everyone.

Your northern Ireland example is highly organized criminals which aren't representative of criminals as a whole.

and the stats to back that up are where?

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Common sense.

Yes the Ulster Defense Regiment was highly organized and sponsored by the British government. The Irish Republican Army was just a name to rally around by the time of the Troubles, very unorganized, but overall much more effective than the UDR.

To call them organized criminals is going a bit far. Thugs, muggers, murderers, terrorists, arsonists, yes, they were all of that and it was criminal activity. However it was mostly a free-for-all, not organized in the manner you think of with say the Mafia. Look at the level of murder and violence in Mexico and the drug running trade between Mexico and the US and you will see that the IRA and UDR were effectively little men playing deadly games. The violence down south is a whole level of scale higher.

_________________
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

If guns were outlawed than criminal organizations would pop up to smuggle them and sell them. Much like the criminal organizations that came about in the 20s due to prohibition. Did prohibition make it harder to buy liquor? Yes, but not by much. And what's more, criminals currently usually buy their guns illegally now, as they are restricted from buying a gun due to their record. It is likely that it wouldn't impact the availability of guns for criminals at all, while it would greatly affect the ability of law abiding people to buy guns.

So you say that it would take highly organized criminals to get guns. While that may be true, those organized criminals can then just turn around and sell them to B&E Bill on the streets. So maybe it costs him $600 instead of $400.

In the world Lex wants to live in, the most rudimentary workings of an economic system don't impact him. People are still buying i-pads, and the real-world underground impact of true supply and demand curves don't actually matter. C'mon, man. It's just his opinion.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

The economy won't collapse as long as people continue to buy more and more consumer electronics... the two can't happen at the same time. So basically you'd have to be right and tons of industry experts would have to be wrong.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

Damn Rynar... minimal effort, maximum carnage.

Remember that time when that plane crashed several years ago? It's going to happen again. To every plane.

Don't worry, man. I know it's just your opinion.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20 

You amuse me.

_________________

Ezekiel 23:19-20