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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:52 pm 
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What Planned Parenthood actually does
By Ezra Klein

With Planned Parenthood being either the major obstacle to a budget deal or one of the major obstacles to a budget deal, it’s worth taking a minute explaining what they do — and what they don’t do.

As you can see in the chart atop this post, abortion services account for about 3 percent of Planned Parenthood’s activities. That’s less than cancer screening and prevention (16 percent), STD testing for both men and women (35 percent), and contraception (also 35 percent). About 80 percent of Planned Parenthood’s users are over age 20, and 75 percent have incomes below 150 percent of the poverty line. Planned Parenthood itself estimates it prevents more than 620,000 unintended pregnancies each year, and 220,000 abortions. It’s also worth noting that federal law already forbids Planned Parenthood from using the funds it receives from the government for abortions.

So though the fight over Planned Parenthood might be about abortion, Planned Parenthood itself isn’t about abortion. It’s primarily about contraception and reproductive health. And if Planned Parenthood loses funding, what will mainly happen is that cancer screenings and contraception and STD testing will become less available to poorer people. Folks with more money, of course, have many other ways to receive all these services, and tend to get them elsewhere already.

The fight also isn’t about cutting spending. The services Planned Parenthood provides save the federal government a lot of money. It’s somewhat cold to put it in these terms, but taxpayers end up bearing a lot of the expense for unintended pregnancies among people without the means to care for their children. The same goes for preventable cancers and sexually transmitted diseases such as HIV/AIDS. You can find a lot more information about Planned Parenthood and its services here.


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Emphasis mine. Article quoted from TWP with links intact.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:54 pm 
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If they want to cut funding, maybe we should go back to 2 wars instead of 3, for a start.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:57 pm 
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But they perform abortions... and abortion is evil!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:02 pm 
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They could always stop performing abortions, and then the point would be moot.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
They could always stop performing abortions, and then the point would be moot.


There's a market demand for abortions, so these will never end (not sure how well you understand economics though).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:07 pm 
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Rynar, please don't get fed by the troll.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Rynar, please don't get fed by the troll.


Which troll? Did Lex post? I can't see his posts anymore. I got tired of his antics a few days back and put him on ignore.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Lex, don't try to argue with anti-abortion zealots like they have any kind of sense.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:38 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
Lex, don't try to argue with anti-abortion zealots like they have any kind of sense.


Are you really calling me an anti-abortion zealot? Perhaps you should consider kissing my ***. Not on the left cheek, and not on the right. But dead in the middle, and deeply with your tounge.

Maybe you should stick around and read through the **** you start, but I suppose that would take something more than cowardice.

Rynar wrote:
Talya wrote:
Corolinth GTalk wrote:
Corolinth: Failure.
me: ?
Corolinth: That thread isn't for you to argue with Rynar. It's me shining a laser pointer to get them to take abortion out of the U.N. beheading thread.
Corolinth: It occurred to me, you see, that someone had to take the same tact that Rynar was - which is to make broad, blanket statements about an entire side of the argument.
Then let them all get worked up.
While I go play Battletech and then take a nap.
Heh.


Fantastic.

Let me make a few statements on my behalf:

1. Coro, I don't believe you. My feelings are that it had just been too long since you last launched some ill-concieved horse-shit bomb and you thought this might be a good opportunity. Anything further on the topic is nothing more than a grand ret-con.

2. While I appriciate your attribution, I think you have my participation confused with that of, well, pretty much everyone else on the forum.

3. I honestly don't care enough about you, or anyone else here to care about the personal moral implications of your stances on abortion. Should someone decide to get one, to my way of thinking it's probably better that they won't be passing along their morals to their children in the first place. Less energy for me to expend on worthless people going forward and all that. I only wish the preferred method was an unattended gunshot to the stomache.


Ask me what I think about people who support abortions? Living sewage, who don't repect human life, and deserve whatever ill comes to them in life.

Ask me if I wish to legislate against them? Nope.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Ask me what I think about people who support abortions? Living sewage, who don't repect human life, and deserve whatever ill comes to them in life.

I don't intend to argue with you but I did want to say that reading this was pretty disheartening. I'm not sure that I'll be able to hold discourse with you any longer, knowing ahead of time that I'm already a piece of **** who deserves a head-on collision should it happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:03 pm 
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To be fair it's hardly the first time we've had some over-the-top disparagement of one's opponents on a single issue as the scum of all humanity on this forum.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Lenas wrote:
Rynar wrote:
Ask me what I think about people who support abortions? Living sewage, who don't repect human life, and deserve whatever ill comes to them in life.

I don't intend to argue with you but I did want to say that reading this was pretty disheartening. I'm not sure that I'll be able to hold discourse with you any longer, knowing ahead of time that I'm already a piece of **** who deserves a head-on collision should it happen.


Hey, people get to decide what others think of them through their own actions and voiced opionions.

I put it pretty much on par with folks who abuse children.

Take solace in knowing that I feel you should feel free to be scummy if you so choose.

I'm not trying to stop you, but I have no problem telling you your opinion is despicable.

Would you prefer I lie to you?

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:16 pm 
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So someone with a mainstream opinion on a national political topic is akin to someone who's personally abusing children? And you're not an anti-abortion zealot?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
So someone with a mainstream opinion on a national political topic is akin to someone who's personally abusing children? And you're not an anti-abortion zealot?


This.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:52 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
So someone with a mainstream opinion on a national political topic is akin to someone who's personally abusing children? And you're not an anti-abortion zealot?


This.


There are cultures which have embraced the systematic abuse of women, slavery, child abuse... It doesn't make those actions somehow better or more just. Appeal to popularity all you like.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Müs wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
So someone with a mainstream opinion on a national political topic is akin to someone who's personally abusing children? And you're not an anti-abortion zealot?


This.


There are cultures which have embraced the systematic abuse of women, slavery, child abuse... It doesn't make those actions somehow better or more just. Appeal to popularity all you like.


If God didn't want women to have abortions, he wouldn't have given them millions of eggs and men millions of sperm.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:28 pm 
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It’s also worth noting that federal law already forbids Planned Parenthood from using the funds it receives from the government for abortions.


Okay I'm going to explain this again. I was a government employee for four years, and there is no such things as reserved funds. Let's pretend I need $200,000 to buy a years worth of widgets. Lets say I get $1,000,000 from the government and I can't spend it on widgets. In the same year let's say I get $200,000 from private donations, and I can spend it on "whatever I want." What do you think I buy with the $200,000 from private donations: widgets. Has the government stopped me from buying widgets? No they haven't. They've paid all my other expenses so that any money that comes in from private donations can go to buy widgets.

It's possible I'm a good little steward of the federal money and I put all my government money into an separate account and I don't write any checks for widgets on that account. It's also possible I'm a little more lax with my money, but as long as I have 1,000,000, that I haven't spent on widgets there is little the government can do against me. I've seen some legal fiction and creative accounting with reserved funds in my time.

Then there are other tricks like transferring of assets and like. If I get infrastructure money for School A, School A gets a new router and the router I bought for them last year (maybe it was free and clear money maybe it was with restricted funds) gets transferred to school B

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Has the government stopped me from buying widgets? No they haven't. They've paid all my other expenses so that any money that comes in from private donations can go to buy widgets.

That's true, and it's exactly the argument liberals use to oppose education funds going to private religious schools, which, of course, anti-abortion conservatives generally have no problem with. So, I don't disagree with the point, but I don't think most people really embrace the principle involved; they just use it as a convenient argument to undermine programs they oppose.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:45 pm 
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This just proves my point on many anti-abortion people being more concerned with being right and/or holy than they are with saving children. Faced with an organization that prevents more abortions than it causes, they would rather dismantle it and increase the amount of abortions occurring because it's "right."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:38 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
This just proves my point on many anti-abortion people being more concerned with being right and/or holy than they are with saving children. Faced with an organization that prevents more abortions than it causes, they would rather dismantle it and increase the amount of abortions occurring because it's "right."
Actually, people want to dismantle Planned Parenthood because Margaret Sanger was an evil twit. Moreover, you have no idea if it prevents more abortions than it performs, because all non-procedure meetings for an abortion count in other categories.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:57 pm 
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RangerDave wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
Has the government stopped me from buying widgets? No they haven't. They've paid all my other expenses so that any money that comes in from private donations can go to buy widgets.

That's true, and it's exactly the argument liberals use to oppose education funds going to private religious schools, which, of course, anti-abortion conservatives generally have no problem with. So, I don't disagree with the point, but I don't think most people really embrace the principle involved; they just use it as a convenient argument to undermine programs they oppose.

Personally I think if we are going to spend money on public education it should be tied to students not organizations but that's neither here nor there.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Xeq why do you implicitly trust the source of the data that says they stop more abortions than they do when that source has a reason to say just that? I've seen you be skeptical of other information sources that speak good about themselves - why is this one not deserving of the same skepticism?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:11 pm 
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Because I have no reason to believe they're lying about that statistic. Also, making contraceptives available and educating people about sex is proven to reduce the teen pregnancy and unwanted pregnancy rates, it's pretty logical that Planned Parenthood's distribution of contraceptives would prevent abortions.

For example, in Germany the average person becomes sexually active at age 14, yet they have one-half the abortion rate, and one-fifth the teen pregnancy rate of the US. If you compare Germany to some southern states, they have one-tenth the teen pregnancy rate. We have far too many religious people in this country that champion total ignorance as a virtue, we need organizations like PP. Planned Parenthood provides a necessary function educating people who were or are being raised by religious zealot parents that would rather their kids remain completely ignorant and not even know what a condom is. Remember Beryllin? He flat out admitted that he would prefer his children to not know anything about even the existence of contraception and honestly there are millions of parents like him, especially in the South.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:32 pm 
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X's logic is so weak as to be nonexistent.
To begin:
Quote:
an organization that prevents more abortions than it causes

How many abortions has PP prevented?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Xequecal wrote:
Because I have no reason to believe they're lying about that statistic. Also, making contraceptives available and educating people about sex is proven to reduce the teen pregnancy and unwanted pregnancy rates, it's pretty logical that Planned Parenthood's distribution of contraceptives would prevent abortions.

For example, in Germany the average person becomes sexually active at age 14, yet they have one-half the abortion rate, and one-fifth the teen pregnancy rate of the US. If you compare Germany to some southern states, they have one-tenth the teen pregnancy rate. We have far too many religious people in this country that champion total ignorance as a virtue, we need organizations like PP. Planned Parenthood provides a necessary function educating people who were or are being raised by religious zealot parents that would rather their kids remain completely ignorant and not even know what a condom is. Remember Beryllin? He flat out admitted that he would prefer his children to not know anything about even the existence of contraception and honestly there are millions of parents like him, especially in the South.


The human race was founded on teen pregnancies. In Niger 53% of married women give birth before they are 18. I don't think they're as big a problem as you make them. The world would be worse off now if we didn't have 7 Billion people, since a percentage of them go on to do great things or contribute in some way. Without people, you'd have wilderness.


Last edited by Lex Luthor on Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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