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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:50 am 
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Yeah. Based on what we see in the video, it's hard to side with the deputy. Other options could have been taken to avoid this imho. Going to someone's place for help, then discharging a firearm and killing a pet on the person's property = trouble.

DE- I don't understand why you take these threads personal.

LK- I'd advise you to treat law enforcement as you would any person out in the world. No better, no worse. People are people, and just because they have a tin star does not mean they are saints or sinners. I've known good guys that work that field, and have known total whackos that wear a badge. I'd say the same for any profession though.....doctor, nurse, teacher, cook, garbage man, baby sitter, lawyer, judge, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:40 am 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Anyone who wants to get trolled by Lex, feel free.


Posting a Youtube video of a news story is trolling now? :roll: I didn't even say anything else.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:19 pm 
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DE- I don't understand why you take these threads personal.


I don't understand why you ask passive-aggressive questions that include assumptions about other people's motivation simply because they are saying soemthing you don't like.

I don't have the time anymore to post like I used to except on the weekends, and come Monday this is going to be an 8+page shitstorm because people can't figure out when Lex is trolling (protest innocence all you want; you pulled a video from Youtube that, in turn, is from a website that's about as credible as DailyKOS or SPLC.) I've been posting here for 6 years and I know exactly where this is going if I try to disagree with the majority. If it were in Heckfire or we still had moderation, I'd take it up, but I don't have the time, and expect to have less time in the near future. This has nothing to do with "taking it personally" any more than anyone here takes anything personally; it has to do with it already being Sunday and me no longer having the time come tomorrow morning when the weekend posting hiatus ends.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Diamondeye:

For a person who continually says stereotypes exist for a reason, you're extremely hostile to the one that applies to your preferred profession.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Stereotypes do exist for a reason. However, since the stereotype the general public has of law enforcement is not the same as that of the bandwagon here, that reason is not that the bandwagon opinion here is correct. However, I know just how emotionally invested some people here are in their resentments, so I'm not going to waste my time on it.

Like I said, go ahead and have your fun. I'm sure you can rant and carry on about whatever evils you please just fine without having to address it to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:03 pm 
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This sort of thing is why Mumia Abu-Jamal still has supporters thirty years later.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Just as a quick note: I do see this as trolling. That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:11 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
Just as a quick note: I do see this as trolling. That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.


I've never seen it before. Posting a link to a Youtube video containing a news story is not trolling.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
This sort of thing is why Mumia Abu-Jamal still has supporters thirty years later.


Wow I forgot about that guy...I remember watching a documentary about him a looooong time ago. He still has supporters?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
NephyrS wrote:
Just as a quick note: I do see this as trolling. That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.


I've never seen it before. Posting a link to a Youtube video containing a news story is not trolling.


Posting a 3.5 year old news story without mentioning the date, however, I do consider rather trollish.

I had thought you were the one that had posted it before, actually- my bad if you weren't. That removes some, but not all, of the trollishness in my mind.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:21 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
NephyrS wrote:
Just as a quick note: I do see this as trolling. That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.


I've never seen it before. Posting a link to a Youtube video containing a news story is not trolling.


Posting a 3.5 year old news story without mentioning the date, however, I do consider rather trollish.

I had thought you were the one that had posted it before, actually- my bad if you weren't. That removes some, but not all, of the trollishness in my mind.


I didn't notice the date, and no I've never posted it before.

It doesn't matter what I do though, it's automatically "trollish" here.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:45 pm 
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NephyrS wrote:
That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.


I'd be interested in that information.

The only thing I can find are stories about how the county settled with her for $15000, and other stories about how that same deputy was fired from a private security firm for 'falsifying time sheets', apparently by the same guy who is his supervisor at the Sheriffs office.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:11 pm 
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right from the linked video...


Uploaded by CopsOutofControl on May 13, 2010
2008 Tammy Christopher is suing Grady County Oklahoma after Deputy Sean Kinght shot her dog.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:28 pm 
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I was referring to Nephyr's inference that there were more facts that came out in another thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:12 pm 
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**** cops. God damn.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Midgen wrote:
I was referring to Nephyr's inference that there were more facts that came out in another thread.


I know that. I did not notice the date initially though, so when it was pointed out... I decided to note it here, this argument does seem damned familiar.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
This isn't worth the 10-page shitstorm I know this is going to turn into, since everyone's a **** expert on what should happen in situations they don't have to deal with.

Uh, I'm pretty sure everyone has dealt with this situation. I certainly have. Many times, in fact, especially while out land surveying in the sticks, replete with ill-trained (and ill-constrained...) pitbulls and their hillbilly owners (yes, I know, they're not all like that. But the sort of people who want to own pits are disproportionately exactly the kind of morons who shouldn't be allowed to own a poodle). I've been charged by all manner and sizes of dogs. I know of what I speak. IMHO, he was being an enormous pussy. Even if it had been growling and snarling (can't really say for sure from the video), that dog wasn't big enough that a man his size, standing as close as he was to the safety of his car, should have seen shooting the dog as his best, let alone only, option.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:32 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Wow I forgot about that guy...I remember watching a documentary about him a looooong time ago. He still has supporters?
Yes, because while half of the population of the country has been trained from a young age that police officers are beyond reproach (like you profess about your own upbringing), the other half has had dealings with the police wherein the police were, to put it bluntly, stereotypical pigs. This does not cause us to believe that all police are evil, vicious thugs, but we are certainly not willing to rule it out. Most police don't find themselves shooting someone's dog on a camera. This is sort of like how most black people who receive poor service at Burger King manage not to riot and destroy the store, and how most pop singers manage not to piss on fifteen year-old girls.

I digress. Much of Mumia's support stems not from a sincere belief that he's innocent, but rather a sincere belief that the country needs fewer police officers like Daniel Faulkner. I don't know what sort of police officer he was, but also bear in mind that I'm not out marching to free Mumia, either.

Police are funny that way. It's not immediately apparent which are more concerned with upholding their own authority rather than the law, and you can't rely on other police officers for hints, either. A pig will most certainly rush to the defense of another pig out of solidarity for their porcine brethren, but a police officer who is otherwise a paragon of the badge will also rush to the defense of a pig out of a misguided belief that the pig is as upstanding as himself. Police are aware of the existence of pigs, but tend to favor the notion that pigs exist in other precincts.

Getting back to the subject of Mumia, you must realize that happened during the early 80s. At this time, police brutality, which was not widely publicized, was a fairly typical interaction between police officers and anyone who wasn't white. NWA's classic, **** Tha Police, was not original subject matter. You can find funk, soul, and reggae classics from the 60s and 70s that make mention of police brutality as well. Rodney King's treatment at the hands of the LAPD was a fact of life for them, and had been for decades. He was just the first time someone actually caught it on camera and could prove that it happened. As a matter of fact, it's still a reality for non-whites to this day.

Much like the conflict between Israel and Palestine, this doesn't mean that we are necessarily talking about upright citizens. However, just because someone might be guilty, and probably is guilty, does not make it acceptable for the police to behave in the manner that we see in that infamous video footage. That's why their acquittal sparked riots. The outcome of that trial taught a very valuable lesson to everyone involved. You, raised to believe that police officers were beyond reproach, had your perception validated. They surely would not have been acquitted if they hadn't been acting appropriately in response to something that was conveniently left out of the video, now would they? Others took a very different lesson from the trial - the lesson that there is no justice achieved through the United States legal system. The very system that is supposed to ensure justice is instead actively protecting thugs with badges.

So, when a police officer like Daniel Faulkner is killed, it represents that very justice that they would be denied ten years later during the original proceedings over the Rodney King beating. That is why Mumia still has supporters. If he's innocent, then he's wrongfully incarcerated. If he did, in fact, kill Daniel Faulkner, then he delivered that real and tangible justice. Daniel Faulkner's reputation as a police officer is somewhat immaterial, because all of his supporters' experience with the police tells them that they're the biggest street gang in L.A. (Or whatever city they happen to reside in).

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:07 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
This isn't worth the 10-page shitstorm I know this is going to turn into, since everyone's a **** expert on what should happen in situations they don't have to deal with.

Uh, I'm pretty sure everyone has dealt with this situation. I certainly have. Many times, in fact, especially while out land surveying in the sticks, replete with ill-trained (and ill-constrained...) pitbulls and their hillbilly owners (yes, I know, they're not all like that. But the sort of people who want to own pits are disproportionately exactly the kind of morons who shouldn't be allowed to own a poodle). I've been charged by all manner and sizes of dogs. I know of what I speak. IMHO, he was being an enormous pussy. Even if it had been growling and snarling (can't really say for sure from the video), that dog wasn't big enough that a man his size, standing as close as he was to the safety of his car, should have seen shooting the dog as his best, let alone only, option.


This. At least get up on the hood of the car. Anything. At least try, you piece of ****.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:08 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
I digress. Much of Mumia's support stems not from a sincere belief that he's innocent, but rather a sincere belief that the country needs fewer police officers like Daniel Faulkner. I don't know what sort of police officer he was, but also bear in mind that I'm not out marching to free Mumia, either.



http://www.freemumia.com wrote:
FREE MUMIA ABU-JAMAL COALITION, NYC
AIMS & PRINCIPLES

1. We believe that Mumia Abu-Jamal is innocent and should be released immediately.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:30 am 
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Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Arathain Kelvar wrote:
Stathol wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
This isn't worth the 10-page shitstorm I know this is going to turn into, since everyone's a **** expert on what should happen in situations they don't have to deal with.

Uh, I'm pretty sure everyone has dealt with this situation. I certainly have. Many times, in fact, especially while out land surveying in the sticks, replete with ill-trained (and ill-constrained...) pitbulls and their hillbilly owners (yes, I know, they're not all like that. But the sort of people who want to own pits are disproportionately exactly the kind of morons who shouldn't be allowed to own a poodle). I've been charged by all manner and sizes of dogs. I know of what I speak. IMHO, he was being an enormous pussy. Even if it had been growling and snarling (can't really say for sure from the video), that dog wasn't big enough that a man his size, standing as close as he was to the safety of his car, should have seen shooting the dog as his best, let alone only, option.


This. At least get up on the hood of the car. Anything. At least try, you piece of ****.

It amazes me that folks think a cop should take **** from a dog that they shouldn't take from a human.

Man or beast, approaching an on-duty cop in an aggressive manner should earn you a Darwin award.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:59 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
It amazes me that folks think a cop should take **** from a dog that they shouldn't take from a human.

Man or beast, approaching an on-duty cop in an aggressive manner should earn you a Darwin award.


Maybe on an Internet forum as a talking point, but in a real life situation it would have been much nicer if he avoided hurting the dog.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:03 am 
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Midgen wrote:
NephyrS wrote:
That video is from a bit over 3 years ago... And from what I recall of the details (when it was posted on the Glade at the time) that came out afterward, it was not as simple of a situation as the video makes it look.


I'd be interested in that information.

The only thing I can find are stories about how the county settled with her for $15000, and other stories about how that same deputy was fired from a private security firm for 'falsifying time sheets', apparently by the same guy who is his supervisor at the Sheriffs office.


I don't remember what it was (I've slept since then), but I do remember there being complicating details. I haven't been able to find any actual, semi-legit news reports from the accident in my brief search, so I'm not sure I can shed much light on this. I just know it was discussed, it was a nice big hellfire blowup, and then later some things about the news report came out that made it look a bit different, and it all blew over.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:07 am 
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Question to anyone who thinks the shooting was justified or at least excusable: would you feel differently if he wasn't a cop? If it was just some guy stopping for directions who happened to have a concealed carry permit and he shot the dog rather than getting back in his car, would you be more inclined to condemn him? How about if he was a utility meter-reader with a concealed carry permit and he was making his rounds checking meters? Should a meter-reader get back in his car instead of shooting the dog?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:18 am 
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Taskiss wrote:
It amazes me that folks think a cop should take **** from a dog that they shouldn't take from a human.

Man or beast, approaching an on-duty cop in an aggressive manner should earn you a Darwin award.


It amazes me that people think cops should basically be able to do whatever they want without consequence. It would be different if he was there to serve a warrant or some other reason and even then if he thinks it is a dangerous situation why not leave call for back up and come back, safer for him and for everyone else.

Like I said I know there are a lot of good ones out there but a lot of dicks too. Too many have this I am always right attitude and can't face it when they make a mistake. Even when is is something simple. There is an intersection near work where they have uniformed police direct traffic after work since there is no light for the offices there for people to get out. I was sitting there one day when a cop waved another car to go then he started to yell at the driver when he went. I had my window down and could hear everything. The cop was literally yelling at this poor guy that he didn't tell him to go. I was in a different lane and as I went by I yelled at the cop that yes he did motion him to go. He was not happy to be contradicted.

That is a small issue but I see it way too often from the police, they are human they make mistakes but they do not want to own up to it. I really think people would have a different perception of them if they would just own up more often and stop trying to cover things up. One of the best inventions is the dashboard cam, i think it should go further and each officer have an individual video and audio device on their person.

Yes it is a stressful job, I have been in many split second life and death situations myself and I have a lot of respect for the good ones out there as it isn't easy. The days of everyone giving the police the benefit of the doubt are coming to an end, there have been too many videos showing bad stuff which is actually too bad because it would be nice if you could trust them completely but they are just human and carry all the baggage that comes with that.

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