The Glade 4.0

Victory-class Star Destroyer

Holy ****.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

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He makes a lot of assumptions on what a dm will allow. Youd probably crash the salt market long before you got to 19 million gold.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Oh yeah, it's wildly abusive of the DM's tolerance. Its just an exercise in rules-lawyering; most DMs would probably punch you if you insisted on trying to do it.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I would point out that it's a level 38 character with a level 36 cohort. Since I don't see epic leadership anywhere on that feat list, the designer fails. (Cohorts are level capped well below 36 without it).

This seems sort of banal for a campaign where epic level rules would have been in effect for close to 20 character levels. Moreover, it does not "break" a system where levels above 20 are an afterthought not included in the original design.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I didn't catch that. My biggest dispute with it was the DC for creating it. His argument was that since a jet engine is DC 25 and a wooden spoon is DC 2, a Star Destroyer should be about the same increase in complexity over the engine as the engine is over the spoon. Therefore, he claims it should be DC 55 or so, a bit more than a 23 point increase but the same ballpark.

Disregarding that a jet engine should probably be a hell of a lot higher than DC 25 for D&D, I'd say that since the jet engine is 12.5 times the spoon's DC it's 12.5 times as complex in D&D terms and therefore, assuming that he's right that the same difference exists between the ship and the engine, the DC for the Victory should really be around 312, or 12.5*25. That would really knock his calculations for a loop since he relies on increasing the DC to get it done in reasonable time - on a plane with accelerated time.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

He really should be playing exalted, not D&D.

(or.... *gasp* ... Star Wars. Heh.)

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

I good GM would just have a high level assassin kill of the characters, hired by the local salt traders guild.

Okay, I once again pose the question to all of you: How is this an unacceptable undertaking that needs to be fixed and balanced? Look again at the character performing this task. Look at the convoluted arrangement of multitasking.

Now look at epic level spellcasting, epic magic items, epic feats, and epic uses of skills, and consider what other level 38 characters are capable of without needing to take on a 40% experience penalty for multiclassing. (Assuming the two Unearthed Arcana classes are base classes, and that Smart class is a prestige class - I really can't be bothered to go look).

I really don't see an issue with anything presented there, aside from the fact that it's a totally moronic build. For an attempt at min/maxing, he's failed at the "max" part. There's a whole lot of wasted effort in there. As a great sorcerer lich once said, power equals power. It doesn't really matter what power. Everything's oddly balanced like that.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/rk5aNHxaOJTn5nGrmoz.gif

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

The Smart class is a d20 Modern class. There's mixing of d20 Modern and d20 D&D stuff in that write-up.

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Okay, so it's another base class, which brings us up to a -60% experience penalty. For all of the hurdles you have to jump through to make that work, you could be looking at a single-class (or more intelligently multi-classed) character in the high 40s and possibly low 50s.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I saw a mention of 7th Sea RPG in there too.

So really it looks like a d20 game using the OGL rather than an actual D&D game.

Nah, just have them encounter the Enterprise on their test flight.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

No one said anything about it needing to be balanced, or fixed. so why are you asking? We're just marvelling at what you can accomplish by rules-lawyering enough. Clearly there's practically no risk of this actually happening in a campaign. Are you talking about comments about having assassins kill the character? People are just joking around.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

A Victory-class star destroyer could take on dozens of Enterprises with little difficulty.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Maybe, but only because the writers of Star Trek don't understand the implications of the technology they've given the Federation...

More like the fact that practially everything in Star Wars can simply put out and soak up far more energy yield that anything in Star Trek can.

Star Wars is to Star Trek what Star Trek is to, say, D&D, in terms of levels of technological advancement. People make the mistake of assuming they're comparable because they're both more advanced than our society, and both are science fiction, but in reality they represent two completely different aspects of science fiction. One is about a nation still very much in its infancy as an intersteller society that has had FTL for a few hundred years at most, the other is about a society that spans an entire galaxy and has had FTL for more than 25,000 years.

Trying to pit them against each other is no more fair than pitting D&D characters against the Enterprise.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Yeah if you really want to get nerdy... If you look at the numbers, "Hyperspace" is far more akin to "Slipstream Technology" in terms of distance travelled. And the Borg are the only people in the trek universe that grasped that.

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Les Zombis et les Loups-Garous!

There was a great site once upon a time, stardestroyer.net; the author decided to go into the fanfic and he would write stories regarding a crossing of the two universes.

The Force Sensitives hated the use of transporters, saying that they destroyed the body and created a clone at the far end of the transport. And those Force Users who may not have been exactly bastions of goodness.... well they would kill anyone that they saw get transported.

I wish the site were still carried the same stories.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Yes but there was this obscure and often touted by trekkies reference that lasers wouldn't even penetrate the radiation shielding of a galaxy starship. Someone even had it in their sig for a while. My attempt was to poke fun at the intense Enterprise/Vicstar Rivalry.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Part of the problem here is that Star Wars is space opera. The "technology" of Star Wars follows pretty much the same guidelines as magic.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Indeed, this is the problem. However, it assumes that turbolasers are, indeed, lasers, when their illustrated behavior is anything but. It's far more likely that it's some kind of plasma stream illuminated by lasers as a tracer, considering the fact that they travel at a speed observable with the naked eye.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Despite pretention to the contrary, the same thing is true of Star Trek. Federation technology isn't all that "magic-seeming", but its mostly equally improbable and there's no shortage of alien menaces with technology that is magic in all but name. Typically also equipped with a high-horse judgemental attitudes towards human tendenceies they (and the writers) disapprove of.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Indeed. Turbolasers are about as much "lasers" as North Korea is a "Democratic Republic."

Even if they were lasers, the ships in question in the cited line were very small and primitive, and Enterprise's shields usually perform best against electromagnetic spectrum energy. Therefore, it's most likely that the speaker (Riker, IIRC) was taking the ships' small size and weak weapons into account.

The "it's immune" argument is a no limits fallacy; it would be like arguing that since the armor on a T-72 can stop rifle rounds without fail, it can therefore also stop SABOT rounds from other tanks without fail.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

And yet for all that, nearly all the races of Star Trek can actually build hand weapons thousands of times more powerful than any blaster in Star Wars.