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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:42 pm 
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This would be interesting provided the laws are in place to protect both the surrogate and the parents.

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Laws allowing women in Queensland to bear children for others are expected to be in place next month.

Attorney-General Cameron Dick on Thursday released for consultation draft laws to decriminalise altruistic surrogacy - where a woman gives birth to another couple's child for no payment.

Queensland is the only Australian state in which altruistic surrogacy is a criminal offence, punishable by a $10,000 fine or three years' imprisonment.

Commercial surrogacy will remain illegal.

Mr Dick said under new rules, parties involved in a surrogacy arrangement will need to seek a court order to transfer the legal parentage of the child.

But they must meet certain strict requirements, including satisfying the court they have undergone counselling, received independent legal advice and have established a medical or social need for the surrogacy.

"These reforms mean that many people who once only ever dreamt of starting a family will now be able to make those dreams a reality," Mr Dick said.

But they also included safeguards to protect everyone's rights, including the child's, and ensured the implications of arrangements were clearly understood, he said.

The move comes after a parliamentary committee recommended laws be repealed to stop the practice going underground.

The laws would also recognise same-sex parents after the review raised the issue of female same-sex couples becoming parents, for example, through IVF.

To give their children legal certainty, the government will amend the law to recognise both mothers as parents.

Opposition Leader John-Paul Langbroek said he would read the draft bill with interest.

He has previously argued the bill's passing would be put in jeopardy if the issue of altruistic surrogacy and gay parenting were not separated.

"I'll be interested to see if there's any decoupling ... of the issue of same-sex parenting," Mr Langbroek said.

"We expressed our concerns about that when the premier brought in her response to the committee."

It is expected the bill will be passed by late November.

Government MPs will be allowed a conscience vote while the opposition has not yet decided how it will vote.


In the case of a dispute, the term "biological" would need to be more clearly defined.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:00 pm 
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I'm confused. Why was the practice (both for- and not-for-profit) illegal, to begin with?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
I'm confused. Why was the practice (both for- and not-for-profit) illegal, to begin with?


Yeah, nothing about that should be illegal.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Due to moral and legal implications?

For Profit is made illegal due to the ease for it to be abused I'd imagine. As we have lots of 'boat people' and asylum seekers, not to mention we already have our hands full with women (especially asia) being sold here as sex slaves, this would open up a new market for abuse.

Not for profit is usually boarderline legal depending on how you go about it. Any contracts you may want to sign is void in the eyes of the law due to the cause and different states recognise different status of the baby. (some states belive it is the right for the biological parents, where as others believe it is the right of the birth mother.)

I guess surrogacy laws are still infants in Aust, and was hoping you guys would comment more.

But judging from your responses, I'm guessing it's legal over there?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Indeed it is.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Even for profit surrogacy? This is interesting news.. I shall have to google more.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Laws vary by state, but yes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:58 pm 
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My googlefu says that your states are still wipper snappers in surrogacy laws as well (except california.. hmm... O.o)

However your (collective) nonchalant-ness on this subject interest me.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:33 pm 
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We also don't have a huge problem with asian women being sold as sex slaves. I think we covered the bases on that particular problem back in the 1800s.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Corolinth wrote:
We also don't have a huge problem with asian women being sold as sex slaves. I think we covered the bases on that particular problem back in the 1800s.


I'm sure there is some punchline in here that I'm missing, but I don't get it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Lydiaa mentioned surrogacy being illegal in Australia because of a problem they have with women being sold as sex slaves. She specified asian women as being particularly victimized in such a fashion.

I can't say I'm familiar with such a problem in the United States. If we would have had asian women being sold as sex slaves, it likely would have been in the 1800s when all the railroad construction was going on. Hence, we've had a hundred and fifty years to address that issue.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:00 pm 
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I think there's a subculture here that still sells women into the sex industry, though not limited to asian women. Sad, but apparently true.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:04 pm 
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Heh...ok I understand now. I totally misread that sentence.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Well part of the reason is that prostitution is legal here, thus lots of women are being told that they would get work here from asian countries. (mostly because they are poorer and can not speak english). They are then forced to work for a certain period of time to 'pay off' their debt to the person who smuggled them here. In essence it's partial sex slavery cause they still get paid, but are extorted for stupid amounts of money.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
Well part of the reason is that prostitution is legal here, thus lots of women are being told that they would get work here from asian countries. (mostly because they are poorer and can not speak english). They are then forced to work for a certain period of time to 'pay off' their debt to the person who smuggled them here. In essence it's partial sex slavery cause they still get paid, but are extorted for stupid amounts of money.


A new twist on indentured servants is what it sounds like.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Beryllin wrote:
A new twist on indentured servants is what it sounds like.


They're usually smuggled in illegally. That's why they can't go for help to escape their slavery, because that just gets them arrested and deported. And they know that if they get deported, there's a very high chance that the organization that smuggled them out of whatever third world country they came from will have them publicly tortured to death as an example.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Lydiaa wrote:
Well part of the reason is that prostitution is legal here, thus lots of women are being told that they would get work here from asian countries. (mostly because they are poorer and can not speak english). They are then forced to work for a certain period of time to 'pay off' their debt to the person who smuggled them here. In essence it's partial sex slavery cause they still get paid, but are extorted for stupid amounts of money.


Prostitution is legal in most of Nevada, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada

However, the situation Lydiaa is describing does have an underground presence here, especially in the big cities. Every now and then a story is posted about police raids on brothels with sex slaves and the topics in Lydiaa's post are universally present. San Francisco had a major bust a few years back, mostly Asian girls, some Mexican, the story ran for a few days, then disappeared. Rumors have it that the guys behind the brothels are truly scary and even the papers are careful about how much information they give out. I don't know enough to know how much of it is true.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:51 am 
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Sex slavery and human traffiking in general is the huge elephant in the living room of illegal immigration.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:29 am 
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All the more reason to make it that much easier to come to this country legally, IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Monte wrote:
All the more reason to make it that much easier to come to this country legally, IMO.


Define, easier? What is required to become a citizen? What needs to be changed to make it easier? How will this affect the ability for immigrants to become citizens?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Monte wrote:
All the more reason to make it that much easier to come to this country legally, IMO.


Yes, because allowing more people into the country legally will obviously make it harder for people to lure poor young women (and sometimes men) into sex slavery. :roll:

All that will do is make it harder to catch them doing it.

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Define, easier? What is required to become a citizen? What needs to be changed to make it easier? How will this affect the ability for immigrants to become citizens?


I'm sure he thinks that if they can become citizens then all of a sudden people will start caring more and the authorities will do more to put a stop to this.

Of course there's A) the fact that human traffiking goes in both directions and B) the fact that we're talking about poor ignorant people at the mercy of ruthless criminals. How he thinks they're going to get the chance to become citizens is beyond me. Criminals, contrary to popular belief, do not just fold as soon as you legalize something. They find another way to keep going.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Diamondeye wrote:
Yes, because allowing more people into the country legally will obviously make it harder for people to lure poor young women (and sometimes men) into sex slavery. :roll:


What are you defining as sex slavery?



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I'm sure he thinks that if they can become citizens then all of a sudden people will start caring more and the authorities will do more to put a stop to this.


Why do you think you have any idea of what I might be thinking?

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Of course there's A) the fact that human traffiking goes in both directions and B) the fact that we're talking about poor ignorant people at the mercy of ruthless criminals. How he thinks they're going to get the chance to become citizens is beyond me. Criminals, contrary to popular belief, do not just fold as soon as you legalize something. They find another way to keep going.


I don't even understand how this relates to what I am saying. There are people that get caught up in the slave trade because they desperately need to get to this country in order to escape gripping poverty and crime. If it was easier to come to this country, it stands to reason that less of them would be in such a position.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Diamondeye wrote:
I'm sure he thinks that if they can become citizens then all of a sudden people will start caring more and the authorities will do more to put a stop to this.


Why do you think you have any idea of what I might be thinking?

Well, you seem to think that's an okay thing to do; ignore the words you write (or say) and instead divine what you really mean, "deep down."

Montegue wrote:
And, honestly, I don't believe he thinks [what he said he believes], deep down.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Kaffis, don't cross-pollinate posts. You know the rules.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:45 pm 
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There are people that get caught up in the slave trade because they desperately need to get to this country in order to escape gripping poverty and crime. If it was easier to come to this country, it stands to reason that less of them would be in such a position.


People get caught up in the slave trade cause of ignorance. As far as I’m aware, even the most poor of women (from asia mostly) would refuse if they had known that they would be sold into the sex trade. They become indentured to these human traffickers because they do not have the money or means to get to the golden land. Legalising their status does not matter when they live on us$10 a month back at home. Exactly where do you propose they get the money to buy an airfare and get there legally in the first place?

Even if you opened your boarders tomorrow and subsidise those that are already in your country, many of these women have had no education, can not speak English, do not have any concept of rights and are not worldly enough to survive in a country built upon ability. What do you propose then? To educate every single one of them as they are coming in? Seriously you can’t even get your public education system right atm with out this burden, do you really think such an influx will not crush it? On top of it, who will pay for this? Another tax? I really don’t think you have thought this out Monty

There are over 600million people considered under-privileged in China alone, I haven’t even started on India or Mexico (and other 3rd world countries), that alone doubles the US population (302mil) as it stands today. As much as you’ll want to feel good and save the women, you just do not have the capacity to do so.

edit. Random thought, if this did somehow become reality, at least next generation there will be a lot of hot mixed babies... hmmm... :shock:


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