The Glade 4.0

Race isn't a factor. In fact, I think it's rather insipid to state that race is an issue with everything regarding his administration.

_________________

That's where the "a variation of" comes in RD - disregarding points of fact out of hand because they don't fit in with a person's perception of reality is how your statement can easily be read. You've been presented with a counterexample to your overly broad claim, and then said the equivalent of: "It's still racism because they are just 'token' (at the very least) blacks."

That don't fly.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Because it's the most efficient way to get the case against you killed, and minimizes expenditure and effort on the part of both Obama and his lawyers? His lawyers would be doing a rather crappy job if they didn't pursue a one hour's work method of "winning" their client's case.

No, giving out the requested documents minimizes expenditure and effort. Filing against discovery is the most cost (and effort) effective method of not complying.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Are you serious?

Obviously you could go out and dig someone up, somewhere, that doesn't liek Obama because he is black. Probably more than one or even more than ten.

So what?

Race is "a factor" is meaningless. You need to show it is a mjaor factor among a statistically significant portion of public opinion at a minimum and even then it will be compared to other factors.

Race is a conveneint excuse to avoid examining the real positions of liberals, just like the elderly or the poor are always an excuse.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I thought that was also debunked. The guy who made that video couldn't even believe it had grown legs. (It was also selectively edited.) I don't have a source - I'd need to dig one up.

So, what about the previous official in Hawai'i who personally examined the long-form BC that's in the bound volume, and stated that the CoLB is perfectly valid, and that's what anyone born in the state gets? Why not lobby to change Hawaiian law, then, since that seems to be the sticking point? If they have the "long-form BC" in their files, but don't have provisions to copy it, then there's where the problem lies, not with the president.

(For the record, *I* never got a long-form BC. The CoLB is all that PA provided, yet it meets all of the requirements needed to use it as a basis for getting a passport, etc. How many Americans would also have similar documentation?)

Questions: What if they decide they don't like how NY or Hawaii or CA does things? They just decide not to accept those records? Wouldn't there be a constitutional issue if Arizona (a) tries to define for itself what citizenship is, and (b) doesn't honor the legal documents of another state or commonwealth?

_________________
When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead?

Funny since the State department accepts the Hawaiian document as proof of citizenship to get a passport. A birth certificate is a generic term and states have different documents. Anyone still on this kick about him not being a qualified citizen by now is either an idiot or trying to push an political agenda.

_________________
I met this six-year-old child, with this blank, pale, emotionless face and, the blackest eyes... the devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil

Conservative freak outs over race-related b.s. stories like Obama's citizenship, Shirley Sherrod, the NBPP, Jeremiah Wright, Michelle Obama's senior thesis, Obama's supposed "Kenyan anti-colonial" worldview, more race-baiting rants than I could possibly link to from people like Hannity, Limbaugh, Malkin, etc....

There's a long-running theme of racially-tinged portrayals of Obama and complaints against him. The right hated Clinton too, but he was just a bleeding-heart, draft-dodging liberal. Obama is a Kenyan anti-colonialist using Alinsky-like tactics to infiltrate our government, undermine the American way of life, and get some racial payback. There's no way to quantify how much of a factor that crap is, but it's there, and it's not just limited to the fringes and fever swamps of the web.

All of those points could be argued without talking about skin color.

I'm not sure what you consider race baiting other than opposing him ideologically. If you'd like to provide an in context sample for debate perhaps I can come to terms with that part of your argument.

So are all the people who pile things on Bush (drunk driving, stupidity, supposed draft dodging, religious zealotry too much vacation) Racist toward white people or Texans then?

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Sure, but taken together they add up to a pattern, and when you consider the intensity of the response to them, that pattern becomes even more clear.


No, because these things don't occur in a vacuum; there's a long history of intense racism toward black people in particular in this country. There's no comparable history of widespread bigotry toward white people and Texans, despite the recent embrace of victim/identity-politics on the right.

Dave, I'm not a Racist and I don't even like the term Races anymore to be honest. It's against what I believe to be the truth of God and His Word that we are all from one blood. I find it disingenuous that just because I and other people disagree with Obama it must be because of some deep seated hatred of people with certain outward characteristics. Some people assuredly do, but I think its just as bad and pre-judgemental to paint us all with a wide brush and say it's about melanin amounts in someones historical line.

Not every dark skinned person that runs afoul of the law or is disliked is done so because of their melanin, right? Our President is no different.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

We'll take these one by one. First, I already pointed out that Obama has a Kenyan father. The allegation that he was born in Kenya is hardly a "freak out", since his mother lacked the ability to transmit citizenship. Moreover, quite a few conservatives have issues not with the assertion that he was born in Hawaii since what evidence there is does support that, but with the legal tactics used in the case. How either of those points has anything to do with racism is beyond me; if his father had been german the exact same situation would exist.

,In this situation, almost everyone was lied to, including possibly even the blog poster that touched off the whole shitstorm. Sherrod later received a great deal of apology from both sides, including Bill O'Reilly, a favorite demon on the left.

Moreover, the case highlighted the hypocritical attitude towards racism on the left, who began ranting in outrage at a false allegation of racism against a black person, but are willing to drop charges of racism against whites/the right at the drop of a hat and essentially ignore it when later developments show the charge to be absurd. Your own article highlights this:



The bottom line in this case was that the public was initially presented what appeared to be incontrovertible evidence of black racism. The fact that it was later revealed to be false hardly establishes that the reaction was motivated by racism against blacks; indeed the assertion that it does largely illustrates one of the points here: The left/blacks feel that only they are allowed to explore issues of race, much less make accusations of racism and any such activity by whites/the right must itself be racist because it does not agree with the left's position. In fact, this is precisely what Sherrod did to O'Reilly:



This case was primarily about the response to the behavior of he two idiots in Philadelphia. Had they been white, the elft would ahve demanded strong action, but in fact the case showed that not only did the DoJ not give a **** if they were black, but also that mant DoJ lawyers have personal objections to prosecuting civil rights cases against blacks because it does not fit their worldview.

Wright is an appalling racist, with an even more appalling excuse for theology. The right pointing out his behavior does not make anyone doing so racist any more than pointing out the WBC's behavior makes one anti-baptist or anti-christian.


The only controversy I'm aware of here is the fact that it suddenly disappeared during the campaign, and the feeling was that there might have been something in it that someone wanted to hide, especially in light of an ill-advised comment or two by Michelle.


Never even heard about this one, and I really have no idea what it's all about, so I have a very hard time beleiveing it received much attention.



What exactly is a "race-baiting rant"? What, in fact, is "race-baiting"? This is sounding suspiciously like "dog-whistle politics", a term that becomes whatever it needs to become to support it's users' assertions and which can never be demonstrated or disproven.



You're demonstrating precisely what I'm talking about - the simple assumption of racism whenever it might convceivably be true in order to dismiss cricticism of the behavior of the left. Excepting the anti-colonial thing from comment since I still don't understand what that's all about, not a single one of these points can be attributed to racism. Every single one involves a call of attention to the hypocrisy that racism charges have become on the left.



They do add up to a pattern - the pattern of addiction to the use of racism as a bludgeon in political discussion by the left, and the attempt to hold onto it. Any attempt to point out hypocrisy or inconssitency is simply met with more charges of racism because the fact is not that there is still significant anti-black racism; the fact is that race politics has largely become about blacks continuing to be told there is racism by the press and politicians and holding onto that, and whites being sick and tired of there being no discussion, just decade after decade of lecture about "privilege" they supposedly have just because there are rich people with the same skin color, and and other racial groups are essentially ignored.

[/quote]

This doesn't make any sense. "There can't be racism against whites now because there is a long history of racism against blacks in the past". That's unsupportable; it relies on the notion that racism requires some power component, and that assertion exists for no purpose except to restrict charges of racism to those whom the users find it conveneient - a semantic trick to leave bad behavior in racial regard by nonwhites with no term to describe it and therefore immune from cricticism or even discussion.

More importantly, the right has not "embraced victim/identity politics"; what it has done is begun calling attention to how that has been used by the left over the past 20-40 years. 40 years ago, racism was still prevalent in this country, although vastly less so than it had been 40 years before that. By the time 20 years ago rolled around, racism in this country was essentially dead, but we first started seeing attempts to prop up its supposed continuation as a boogeyman, and a tool to suppress viewpoints that the politicians and press on the left didn't like.

The fact of the matter is that racism in this country is a joke anymore, and that "long history of intense racism" has been dead for about 30 years, while the pendulum has swung the other way - in some ways in overt discrimination on things like college scholarships, but far more importantly in using it's spectre to suppress serious discussion, because the left does not want a discussion or dialogue about race; it wants a lecture podium. The right has simply grown sick and tired of this, and these incidents you cite above are not anti-black freakouts; they are people simply making it clear that they will no longer tolerate certain behaviors being acceptable from blacks and the left, castigated when on the right or from whites, nor will people any longer tolerate "racism" being a term that means whatever the NAACP wants it to mean.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

DE, seriously, I gotta ask ...

Is the Quote Tag in your world some institutionalized criminal named Bubba with 6 shoes sized, 300 lbs, and 6 inches on you?

_________________

He gets his licks in, but eventually I managed to get him down. He's pretty muscle-bound.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

You know what would have been an awesome way to end the situation also?

Let the Supreme Court hear it, and say the CoLB was enough. But seriously... my ONLY issue with this whole "birther" thing was the claim that the people of America do not have the standing to demand proof that their CIC is eligible to be CIC under the provisions of the Constitution.

_________________
Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I don't necessarily have a problem with that because I don't want random idiots on each side contesting each and every election with frivolous claims.

I ahve a problem with the idea that the states cannot challenge his eligability. If citizens want eligibility challenged, they should get their state to do so.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

Congress, the States, Citizens, other Candidates ...

These groups have been ruled to not have standing to challenge a President's eligibility. And verification has been ruled to be the province of the nominating party.

_________________

Thank you Vindi, for answering RD's question about what behavior I was alluding to, since I rarely read Hellfire over the weekend.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Wasn't it Hilliary's camp that brought it up in the first place?

_________________
"It is true that democracy undermines freedom when voters believe they can live off of others' productivity, when they modify the commandment: 'Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote.' The politics of plunder is no doubt destructive of both morality and the division of labor."

Looks like it got vetoed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04 ... tizenship/

_________________
"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Yes.

_________________
I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

I could see potential for constitutionality concerns over this.

If adequate documentation exists to convince the USSC that the constitutional requirements are met, regardless of the form of that documentation, that should be adequate for Federal office.

Just saw an interesting corollary to the belief that this all has racist underpinnings and to the more subtle "Republican plurality" line of defense.

In 2006, an Ohio University/Scripps Howard poll found that slightly more than half of Democrats said they suspected the Bush Administration of complicity in the Sept. 11 attacks. Politico

and

In 2007 a Rasmussen poll found that 35% of Democrats believe George W. Bush knew about 9/11 in advance.Rasmussen

Seems that rather than black or white, it's R or D.



Oh, come on, the House unanimously passed a resolution back in '09 stating that Obama was born in Hawaii.

_________________
"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Oh look they finally found Obamas long form birth certificate.

_________________
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

Yay, now the idiot chorus gets to change its refrain from "Where's the birth certificate?" to "Yes, but is it real?," with a net change of 0% in the annoyance factor for everyone else.