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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:40 am 
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http://thehayride.com/2011/04/westboro-baptist-church-goes-to-mississippi-and-loses/


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Westboro Baptist Church Goes To Mississippi – And Loses


On Saturday USMC Staff Sgt. Jason Rogers, who was killed in action in Afghanistan April 7, was buried in Brandon, Mississippi.

That, by itself, is a sadly unremarkable – though certainly noteworthy and solemn – occasion for us to mark.

And in fact when Sgt. Rogers’ body returned to Brandon it was greeted by hundreds, or perhaps even thousands, of well-wishers who gathered at the roadside to honor the fallen American hero. The dashboard camera from Mississippi state trooper Elmo Townsend’s cruiser gives an indication of the scene last Thursday.



What is most notable about Sgt. Rogers’ funeral in Brandon, however, is what didn’t happen.

You see, the troglodytes from Westboro Baptist Church had threatened to spew their poison at Sgt. Rogers’ funeral.

But the Westboro mob wasn’t on the scene, and Sgt. Rogers was laid to rest without incident – thank God.

Why weren’t there protestors?

Planning ahead by the locals, as it turns out.

From an Ole Miss sports message board, a tidbit of information…

A couple of days before, one of them (Westboro protestors) ran his mouth at a Brandon gas station and got his arse waxed. Police were called and the beaten man could not give much of a description of who beat him. When they canvassed the station and spoke to the large crowd that had gathered around, no one seemed to remember anything about what had happened.

Rankin County handled this thing perfectly. There were many things that were put into place that most will never know about and at great expense to the county.

Most of the morons never made it out of their hotel parking lot. It seems that certain Rankin county pickup trucks were parked directly behind any car that had Kansas plates in the hotel parking lot and the drivers mysteriously disappeared until after the funeral was over. Police were called but their wrecker service was running behind and it was going to be a few hours before they could tow the trucks so the Kansas plated cars could get out.

A few made it to the funeral but were ushered away to be questioned about a crime they might have possibly been involved in. Turns out, after a few hours of questioning, that they were not involved and they were allowed to go on about their business.

Fred Phelps, the disbarred lawyer and Democrat activist who leads the Westboro congregation, will undoubtedly pursue some form of legal action for the way his people were thwarted in Brandon. Let him try. There isn’t a jury in Mississippi which will see things his way.

This is a template for how to handle the Westboro people. If lawsuits don’t work, other means will. Whatever it takes to keep them from harassing bereaved military families on the day their fallen loved ones are laid to rest.

UPDATE: Some of the feedback we’ve received from this piece came along the lines that it’s inappropriate to refer to Fred Phelps as a “Democrat activist.”

We stand by that characterization. If anything, it’s an understatement.

Fred Phelps ran for major office in Kansas as a Democrat no less than four times. He ran for governor on the Democrat ballot in 1990, 1994 and 1998 and for senator in 1992. Phelps received 11,000 votes, or seven percent, in 1990, he received 5,000 votes, or three percent, in 1994 and he picked up 15,000 votes, or 15 percent, in 1998. And in the senatorial contest in 1992 he garnered 49,000 votes, or 30 percent. Phelps furthermore ran as a Democrat candidate for mayor of Topeka in 1993 and 1997.

Phelps also has been closely associated with Al Gore on several occasions throughout Gore’s career – Phelps’ son Fred, Jr. was a Gore delegate at the 1988 Democrat convention and the Phelpses hosted a Gore fundraiser in Topeka that year. Phelps claims that Westboro members “ran” Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas.

Phelps may not fit within the typical definition of “Democrat activist” some of our readers expect – but a six-time Democrat candidate is an activist Democrat. That is quite clear, as unknown to the public as it might be.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:57 am 
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So violence is the answer?

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:01 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
So violence is the answer?


Against bullies, when even going to the Supreme Court hasn't worked? Maybe so.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:01 am 
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I'm not entirely sure what your post has to do with LK's, Rori. I wouldn't call this violence, other than the one isolated case at the beginning where a guy was hit, which appears to have nothing to do with the brilliantly organized shutdown of the WBC protesters.

It would suck if you happened to be visiting from Kansas at the time...

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Last edited by Talya on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:05 am 
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Fixed. I'll leave it stand as it was written. I don't like the idea if people getting assaulted for violating their civil rights.

Also didn't we just have several long threads about the wrongness of police abuse? Blocking peoples cars is probably acceptable civil disobedience. Arresting people without just cause is another issue.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:09 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
So violence is the answer?


While violence was mentioned in that story, it would seem that it was not necessary as part of the other shenanigans that kept the protesters from making it to the funeral site.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:09 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Also didn't we just have several long threads about the wrongness of police abuse? Blocking peoples cars is probably acceptable civil disobedience. Arresting people without just cause is another issue.

I'm inclined to agree. This was along the lines of my reaction. The car block-ins was actually a pretty excellent solution.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:12 am 
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Yeah. Either the right to peaceably assemble exists or it doesn't. Either the cops have the right to hold people for brief periods or they don't and it's kidnapping. You can't pick and choose without eroding rights.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:13 am 
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With the exception of the beating the one rude jackal got, it was a nonviolent series of events. Since it was his mouth that started everything I think the good people of Rankin county owe him a debt of thanks for alerting them to the planned disruption. Being held for questioning usually does not include arrest. In most states the police can hold anyone for "questioning" for 24 hours without arresting them.

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Last edited by Micheal on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:14 am 
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So what about the abuse of police power? arresting people for threadbare reasons that we just went about for several pages? You can hang whatever lantern you want on it, but those people were arrested to prevent them from excising their Constitutional Rights.

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Last edited by Rorinthas on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:14 am 
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Yeah, maybe the guy shouldn't have gotten a good old fashioned Mississippi *** whoopin, and maybe the police shouldn't have meddled as much as they did....but honestly, in this case, I don't care. My sense of pride in my state and my fellow Mississippians for doing whatever they could to protect "one of ours" makes me proud.
Go ahead and bash me on this one, I really don't care.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:18 am 
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I like you, Kate. I'm not trying to pick on you, just trying to debate the issue at hand. You're welcome to your opinion. I'm willing to admit the cops can't do anything if the assaulted can't provide a description of his attacker and no witnesses come forward.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:19 am 
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the police shouldn't have arrested the people at the funeral at all. It was an abuse of power, and a violation of the right to peably assemble. Nothing wrong with blocking the cars in though. And homie in the beginning deserved his *** whoopin

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:24 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I like you, Kate. I'm not trying to pick on you, just trying to debate the issue at hand. You're welcome to your opinion. I'm willing to admit the cops can't do anything if the assaulted can't provide a description of his attacker and no witnesses come forward.


I know, and I appreciate that, I like you too. I'm just trying to be upfront and honest about how I feel in this particular situation, and let ya'll know that even if I have contradictory views in other threads, in this particular instance, my pride in Mississippi overwhelms any other sense of political rights and wrongs.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:26 am 
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Again, the WBC folk were not arrested. The article said they were ushered away for questioning about a crime they may have been involved in.

Was it abuse of power? Yes. But it was not an arrest. The police have the legitimate authority to do that to anyone, for up to 24 hours. If Phelps and the WBC want to sue over it, they could probably get a judge to hear it, just long enough to dismiss it for being without merit.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:43 am 
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I would say it should be a lesson learned: Don't be on the unpopular side of an issue.


Last edited by Buliwyf on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:48 am 
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I'm not sure it has no merit, Micheal. That would all depend on how clever the police were about coming up with a case that they "might have been involved in."

The article doesn't elaborate on that case at all, so whether or not it was a *transparent* abuse of power, as opposed to simply an obvious ulterior motive, is not clear. It might be that such a case has merit, though again, good luck finding a jury who will agree in Mississippi. It might also be that they covered their asses well enough that a case wouldn't have merit, as you suggest.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:54 am 
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Buliwyf wrote:
I would say it should be a lesson learned: Don't be on the unpopular side of an issue.


Well, at least not in Mississippi. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:01 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Buliwyf wrote:
I would say it should be a lesson learned: Don't be on the unpopular side of an issue.


Well, at least not in Mississippi. ;)


Yeah, everyone who has an unpopular opinion should have their rights subtly impeded by the citizens and police. I'm sure there was no collusion going on, and if it ever was to come to trial, well, jury nullification is perfectly acceptable if the opinion expressed is unpopular enough. Right?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Again, the WBC folk were not arrested. The article said they were ushered away for questioning about a crime they may have been involved in.

Was it abuse of power? Yes. But it was not an arrest. The police have the legitimate authority to do that to anyone, for up to 24 hours. If Phelps and the WBC want to sue over it, they could probably get a judge to hear it, just long enough to dismiss it for being without merit.



If they were not free to go it was an arrest.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:20 pm 
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I'm sure you feel that way Elmarnieh, but law and precedence disagrees with you.

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Micheal wrote:
I'm sure you feel that way Elmarnieh, but law and precedence disagrees with you.


Actually, in this case he's very much correct.

You can leave at any time if you aren't under arrest. It's just that most folks don't push it to that level, and the cops don't advertise that particular understanding of the law.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Aizle wrote:
Micheal wrote:
I'm sure you feel that way Elmarnieh, but law and precedence disagrees with you.


Actually, in this case he's very much correct.

You can leave at any time if you aren't under arrest. It's just that most folks don't push it to that level, and the cops don't advertise that particular understanding of the law.


You can't leave if you're being "detained". You can try to leave without his permission, but you'd probably get arrested for that.


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Micheal wrote:
I'm sure you feel that way Elmarnieh, but law and precedence disagrees with you.



No they don't Micheal but I would be very interested in where you got this idea. Surely it isn't from any of the legal compendiums definitions of arrest and most assuredly not Black's. Exactly how many times have you researched arrest laws and definitions in the US or any of her states?

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Last edited by Elmarnieh on Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Aizle wrote:
Micheal wrote:
I'm sure you feel that way Elmarnieh, but law and precedence disagrees with you.


Actually, in this case he's very much correct.

You can leave at any time if you aren't under arrest. It's just that most folks don't push it to that level, and the cops don't advertise that particular understanding of the law.


You can't leave if you're being "detained". You can try to leave without his permission, but you'd probably get arrested for that.


Which would be official oppression - a federal crime.

Police can have an "encounter" with anyone - where they have the same level of authority as anyone else on the street and anyone is free to talk or not to go with them or not.

Police require AT LEAST a "Reasonable and articulate suspicion" known as RAS or RS in order to act with the colour of law behind them. This has to be RAS that a crime is either underway or imminently will be. Hunches and feelings do not qualify - as it has to be articulated.

You are under arrest the moment you are physically restrained or a reasonable observer would assume you are not free to go. (handcuffs, face down on the ground...other situations that have been ruled).

This is law in the entire US of A. If a police officer says 'do this or I will arrest you' don't do it because if they had RAS you would already be under arrest.

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