The Glade 4.0

Agreed. I just wanted to clarify your view on that, because I often get the impression in these discussions that for conservatives and libertarians there's an implicit distaste for the whole idea of employees negotiating as a group instead of doing it as individuals.

And why is that?

Basically because the transaction costs would outweigh the potential gains.

And the factors driving the transaction costs and the implementation of salary banding?

Unions and liability.

Not sure I have a view on whether unions are driving salary banding in non-unionized companies, but sure, potential liability is a factor. Much more than that, though, is the simple fact that it's not worth the time and cost involved to negotiate with 10,000 (or however many) individual employees, most of whom are pretty interchangeable and easily replaceable. The way it actually works is the company does periodic reviews of overall operations and prevailing industry wages, and then sets their payscale accordingly.

Because employees have no true information on the value of their labor.

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I have no real objection to this statement. I was really trying to get to a value statement on your part.



Heheh, I guess we're at cross purposes here; I'm trying to pull a value statement out of you and your trying not to make a value statement.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

I'd check into what libertarians stand for as far as individual rights. I can't really see a libertarian arguing against the right of free association. Now, Governmental favoritism and unions forcibly collecting dues to spend on elections of lawmakers who make union rules allowing unions to forcibly collect union dues...

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

*chuckle* Yeah, I'm kind of a bad liberal when it comes to union issues. I don't see corporations as the bad guys and employees as noble underdogs. In my view, they're both just self-interested parties trying to get the best deal they can in a commercial transaction, and unions are (or at least can be) an effective way for employees to increase their bargaining power.

Then I guess we have no real disagreement here; does that mean we have to manufacture one?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Absolutely! This is Hellfire, after all, so let's see...uhh...tastes great?

What other reason is there?

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Union regulations prohibit any manufacturing by non-union personnel.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Dammit!

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Its okay Vindi, just assign the manufacturing task to the Union personnel. Less Filling.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Yeah, but we actually want to get it *done*.

Tastes great.

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Holy shitsnacks!

The artificially raised price of labor due to unions costs some people and it's not the corporations. It's the consumers. A small group of people subsidizes the union benefits. The union raises the costs of doing business in an efficient manner (and sometimes promotes protectionisim and prevents competition for the jobs they hold). They are special interest groups.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

You sure about that?


Ah, there it is.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

What's artificial about it, though? As I said to Nitefox: "I often get the impression in these discussions that for conservatives and libertarians* there's an implicit distaste for the whole idea of employees negotiating as a group instead of doing it as individuals." Do you think negotiating as a group is inherently "artificial"? If so, why?

*Which is not to say that you're necessarily either, Wwen.

Ah, good point. Guess I didn't think that one all the way through.

Negotiating as a group is fine. However, no company should be legally forced into negotiating with a group. (And i firmly believe government shold be legally prohibited from negotiating collectively. No union should be in a position to hold the taxpayer hostage.)

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

This puts it very nicely.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I disagree and think you are incredibly naive.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

There is nothing wrong with public sector unions - as long as they cannot go on strike. They are not "holding the taxpayer hostage" any more than a union negotiating with a business would be, without all the extra protections unions get.

Taxpayers are not sacred; they should not be protected from having to pay for services by artificially restricing the freedom of association of government employees any more than unions should have special laws to protect them.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

I ask again.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20