The Glade 4.0

Apple not the government...

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/137432/ ... on-you.htm

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

I think you'd be better off identifying who ISN'T watching, and I believe you'll find that list much shorter than you'd imagine.

I don't know of anyone capable of knowing my location not doing so in some form or another.

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In time, this too shall pass.

I wonder if my GPS system can find me, only use it on long drives where I don't know where I am going. My cell is so old it probably has no tracking capacity. I just might be safe...

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"Life isn't divided into genres. It's a horrifying, romantic, tragic, comical, science-fiction cowboy detective novel. You know, with a bit of pornography if you're lucky."
— Alan Moore

Oh no, Big Brother is watching too. They've been quietly downloading this information from phones since before the iPhone 3G.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ ... 195911.htm

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The "government" can access anything about your mobile phone usage, including tracking and listening to calls, tracking your location, reading your text messages and emails, and monitoring your network access.

The difference is (in theory) that they need a judges order to do it.

The fact that the database exists means that a law enforcement agency *could* access it as part of an investigation.

What isn't understood, and Apple isn't really talking about, is why the database exists in the first place, and what, if anything Apple (or your network provider) is doing with it (or can do with it) based on your Terms of Service.

This is further compounded by the fact that such information does have perfectly legitimate uses within the telecomm industry.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

I don't think this really changes anything. Just because the information is useful doesn't mean the telcom industry is entitled to generate it or access it.

With an android device you can opt out of location based services. I believe you can do the same on Apple, which basically disables a lot of the functionality your GPS provides. What is controversial about this database to me is that there is apparently no way to opt out of the thing, and it's really not clear at all why the data exists in the first place. It bases your location on data from the 3G network access points, not your GPS, so you can't really disable it as long as your phone is on and working.

If Apple is creating this as a data source for applications to help you in finidng your favorite restaurant, or cheap gas, thats great, let me decide if i want that feature or not, and allow me to disable it.

On the otherhand, if they are creating it as a revenue source (advertising, etc...) or for some other more insidious reason, I would be a little unhappy with them about it for not being more open, and allowing me to disable it.

I honestly don't see what the huge deal is. They can probably make good use of this information. It'll be really cool for people to log into their computers and accurately know where they are from IP address alone. Sure, they should've gotten permission, but it's really not a huge deal.

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"Dress cops up as soldiers, give them military equipment, train them in military tactics, tell them they’re fighting a ‘war,’ and the consequences are predictable." —Radley Balko

Which, let's face it, is probably exactly the reason the database exists.

I'm just pointing out that the data itself is important to several companies for legitimate reasons. Your cell phone carrier, for example, needs to know where you're likely to be using their service. It is entirely possible that Apple is contemplating cutting out the middle-man for the iPhone, erecting their own towers, and spinning off their own carrier service.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

They can already triangulate you from their towers. If you don't want to be tracked, turn off your phone and take out the battery. And put on your tin foil hat. Then nobody will "get you".

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

If you read some of the articles, it doesn't appear a warrant is required for location information.

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911 services from a cellular device, parental tracking, local vs. Long distance calling, being able to capture the audio if a subpoena is issues, being able to troubleshoot call quality issues, hell even fraudulent calling can (and the detection of said calling) all rely on the location of the device.

The x factors for why a device could be collecting data is a large list. Does Apple use it for any of those reasons?

/shrug

I do not know, maybe. But there are valid reasons for a device to collect that information even if the user "opts out".

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

What's the worst thing that could happen, an Apple employee finds out you went to the Supermarket? It's just your general location, it's not like you're being video taped.

I'm not sure about Apple/IOS, but 'Location Based Services' are opt-in only on Android . This feature is necessary to use a location based app, such as 'Places', etc... I'm pretty sure this is also dependent on your GPS being active, but this could vary from device to device.

I should note that the Location Database the media is all up in arms about is not part of "Location Services" (despite the similar name). That database tracks your location regardless of GPS state, your "Location Services" opt-in status, or even whether or not your phone is powered off (it logs as long as the battery in installed).

E911 location data is made available to 911 service operators as mandated by federal law. This is tower triangulation data, and is necessary for obvious reasons. To my knowledge this data is not logged locally on the handset at all (at least not as part of the E911 set).

Again, there is no good reason for that database to exist without the owners knowledge and consent.

NinjaEdit: added some clarifications

I've been told that living off the grid makes you easier to track, as the data limits where you might be. Instead, live so on the grid with multiple devices reporting your whereabouts constantly and continually, some falsely so, and they may have a general idea where you've been, but catching up with you is going to be hard.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

The more I think about it, the more the Apple ISP idea sounds plausible. The database is preliminary market research into whether their iPhone contract with AT&T is facilitating or hindering profits. AT&T no longer offers the unlimited data plans, which could have a negative impact on Apple's sales. Google, which has a competing piece of hardware on the market, has been rumored to be working on their own ISP. Apple doesn't want to be at a disadvantage.

Therefore, they want information on how much it would cost, and so they can make projections for their return on investment.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

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In time, this too shall pass.

This is not true.

The location data is MUCH more accurate than he states. How accurate depends on your proximity to, and the density of the towers your device triangulates with. In a densely populated city it's going to be accurate within a few feet. In rural areas it will vary depending on movement, tower proximity, etc..

This writer is probably basing his assumption on the graphical representations created by pete warden's github tool that you see on many websites reporting on the issue.



Edit:
Something useful
http://tomstokes.wordpress.com/2011/04/ ... ation-log/

Another edit:
If you want to create your own map image using your (unencrypted) consolidate.db, here you go.
http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/

Uh, I think some wires got crossed. The tool is apparently called "iPhone Tracker". Github is just the code hosting service he's using to host the git repository for his source code.

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Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.

Probably mine. I was doing some quick searching trying to find the origin of those images. I posted the first link I came across without really looking into it (I was pretty busy at work today).

Common misconception, the data they are talking about is a triangulation of the cell towers your phone is picking up. (Your E911 above).

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To be clear Hopwin, the E911 data I'm referring to is exactly the same data as that in the database, but the E911 specification does not involve saving it into a database on your device, nor saving it on your PC. E911 primarily exists on the network side, and is used in emergencies to locate a device in real-time. There is no history involved.

My assertion is, there is no reason (related to E911 or otherwise) to create that database, or to save it to your PC).

I just meant the data that is stored on your same is the same as the E911. I agree with you mostly, the only legitimate use I would accept is if this data on your phone allowed you to access towers more quickly which used to be a bigger problem in the past when coverage was spottier and your phone had to download a list of towers. Nowadays that is a moot point for I would estimate 85-95% of the continental US.

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