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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:42 pm 
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So......I'm reading the books. I'm about 3/4 of the way through the 2nd book A Clash of Kings.

...

major CoK book spoiler
Spoiler:
That did not just happen. I mean seriously. I don't even know what to say. When you thought he died towards the beginning of the first book, it was horrible, and sad, and while he seemed like a pretty cool character, you were just getting to know him.

Then he blossoms into this great character. His drive to overcome his disability. I loved reading his viewpoints. Now this.

I tell you...I've never wanted to kill a fictional character so much as that freaking bastard Theon Greyjoy. I so hope the Others get him.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:44 pm 
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LadyKate wrote:
Raltar wrote:
I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt, then and keep going until episode 6.


Hooray!!


Actually, I might only go to episode 5 because that would be the half way point. 10 weeks, 10 episodes right?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Aegnor wrote:
major CoK book spoiler
Spoiler:
I tell you...I've never wanted to kill a fictional character so much as that freaking bastard Theon Greyjoy. I so hope the Others get him.

Ah, Theon. I feel bad for the poor bastard.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Aegnor wrote:
major CoK book spoiler
Spoiler:
I tell you...I've never wanted to kill a fictional character so much as that freaking bastard Theon Greyjoy. I so hope the Others get him.

Ah, Theon. I feel bad for the poor bastard.


I don't. Frack him. He deserves whatever comes his way.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:40 pm 
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Keep reading.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:06 am 
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CoK book spoiler

Spoiler:
Hmmm...Martin got me again. Even so, Theon is a freaking bastard that deserves to be shortened a foot or so from the top.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:34 am 
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Dammit quit putting spoilers out there I want to read them SOOOO BAD!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:46 pm 
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Boy, I tell you. This series sure likes to kick you in the *** over and over again. It reminds me of the book The Kite Runner. Just when you think things couldn't get worse, BAM!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:10 am 
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Aegnor wrote:
Boy, I tell you. This series sure likes to kick you in the *** over and over again. It reminds me of the book The Kite Runner. Just when you think things couldn't get worse, BAM!

And yet, we keep coming back for more. This is us at our most masochistic.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:17 am 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Aegnor wrote:
Boy, I tell you. This series sure likes to kick you in the *** over and over again. It reminds me of the book The Kite Runner. Just when you think things couldn't get worse, BAM!

And yet, we keep coming back for more. This is us at our most masochistic.


Martin is a master at bringing this trait out in us. Also at making us question our opinions of his characters. Very few writers do that well.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:24 am 
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Calador wrote:
Also at making us question our opinions of his characters. Very few writers do that well.

Wow, this totally nails it. In the past, I've attributed it to character growth, but I think this is much more accurate.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:29 pm 
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In related news: Kong is dead


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Well, at least this episode didn't make me angry like the other ones did.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:34 pm 
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I think it speaks well of the creators that Syrio has me delighted.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:04 pm 
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I'm saying this here as I don't know where else to comment on the book and I have to say something. I will say this, don't read these books. They will rip your heart out and stomp it on the ground.

ASoS spoiler
Spoiler:
So I knew something wasn't right. It was telegraphed in advance, with Grey Wind freaking out, and the general uneasyness, but that? Its horrible! Whats the point of this series? Everyone freaking dies. The next chapter is an Arya chapter. Her and the Hound will probably go up to the castle, they'll find out who she is, rape her, and slit her throat. Then Tywin will decide its time to end the farce, and cut off Tyrion and Sansa's heads. Then the wildlings will come and Ygrette will slit Jon's throat for a bit of irony. Then the Others will take out Meera, Jojen, Hodor, and Bran (for real this time). Let me think, are there any other characters I love? Oh yeah, Samwell will probably freeze to death at the base of the Wall a 100 yards from the gate.


Freaking bastard GRRM.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Aegnor, I'm forwarding this post to GRRM in case he gets stuck for ideas.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Aegnor wrote:
I'm saying this here as I don't know where else to comment on the book and I have to say something. I will say this, don't read these books. They will rip your heart out and stomp it on the ground.

ASoS spoiler
Spoiler:
So I knew something wasn't right. It was telegraphed in advance, with Grey Wind freaking out, and the general uneasyness, but that? Its horrible! Whats the point of this series? Everyone freaking dies. The next chapter is an Arya chapter. Her and the Hound will probably go up to the castle, they'll find out who she is, rape her, and slit her throat. Then Tywin will decide its time to end the farce, and cut off Tyrion and Sansa's heads. Then the wildlings will come and Ygrette will slit Jon's throat for a bit of irony. Then the Others will take out Meera, Jojen, Hodor, and Bran (for real this time). Let me think, are there any other characters I love? Oh yeah, Samwell will probably freeze to death at the base of the Wall a 100 yards from the gate.


Freaking bastard GRRM.


Heh, I felt the same thing several times through the books, yet he still manages to drag you back in, keep you hooked, and make you like it. How many other authors can accomplish that? Very few stories ever make you feel like any character can die at any moment.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:35 pm 
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I suspect it won't be as bleak as that in the end. I hope, at least!

To be honest the worst part for me was very early on, during the trip down the Kingsroad to King's Landing, already covered by the TV show.

There's probably about one char... mm... two chars I would be very unhappy to see go. One for emotional sort of reasons, the other just cause I feel the series would be worse without. Everyone else is fair game, or at least can be if it's done properly.

Then again, one of the hallmarks of this series is that reality trumps such notions like 'done properly', and sometimes reality is short, harsh, and cruel.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Noggel wrote:
I suspect it won't be as bleak as that in the end. I hope, at least!

To be honest the worst part for me was very early on, during the trip down the Kingsroad to King's Landing, already covered by the TV show.

There's probably about one char... mm... two chars I would be very unhappy to see go. One for emotional sort of reasons, the other just cause I feel the series would be worse without. Everyone else is fair game, or at least can be if it's done properly.

Last weekends' show spoilers:
Spoiler:
You're talking about Lady, not the butcher's boy, aren't you? You monster.


Book spoilers through to the end of aFfC:
Spoiler:
Arya, Bran, and Jon? Which is the emotional one, and which wouldn't make you unhappy?

For me, it's kind of the inverse. I've grown *more* attached to a broader range of characters as the series progressed. Jaime gets all sympathetic in aSoS, Sansa gets tolerable after leaving King's Landing and starting to legitimately be able to see the world beneath the shine of her bard's tales, the wildlings get humanized quite a bit with Jon's interactions with them, Thoros does a lot to redeem the Lord of Light from Mellisandre's creepiness and ruthlessness, Arya gets harder and harder to let go; I want her to totally get turned into a girl with awesome assassin skills and then get reunited with Nymoria, if anything happens to Bryndon I'll be royally pissed, the Hound has been made a lot more sympathetic, too, Tyrion ends up getting a lot of pathos and trying to do the right thing while not getting devoured by his family, I've already ended up feeling just ultimately sorry for Theon, for how much he's **** things up, while Asha ends up just being a cool little spitfire who I can't bring myself to wish ill upon...

About the only characters who I'm really actively rooting for to die in a fire are Cersei, Joff, and maybe Tywin (though, Tywin doesn't have to die -- I'd settle for his ambition ripping his family and lineage/legacy to shreds in the ultimate schadenfreude). I suppose ultimately, my biggest wishes are still for the Starks to come out okay after all this. But there's a lot of folks that I don't want to get trampled on along the way, even if that's still the end result. Which is perfect for GRRM, as that means he gets to crush my soul again and again, still.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:10 pm 
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I'm... probably just gonna spoiler this whole post. :p The only thing in general is that I wouldn't be pleased to see a lot of characters die, but just that it's ...within acceptable boundaries. I know what I have got myself into with this series, so I can't right well complain.

Spoiler:
Arya's the sympathetic one. On my last reread through I think she was my favorite character. There is too much potential for badassery here, though I wonder how the emotions/psychology side of things will play out. I don't want her to turn into a stereotypical Whedon character... friend of mine sees this happening, right up until she meets a rough, grisly death at the hands of reality. I would be kinda distraught if this happens!

The other character I mention would, of course, be Tyrion. The series as a whole just loses too much if it loses him. Granted, you could've said the same thing about Ned, but I think Ned's loss helped the story, whereas the gap left behind by any death of Tyrion's would just be... empty.

There are other characters that are probably immune to death, though, that I'm not too worried about. Any character mostly alone is pretty immune by virtue of the fact that if they die, their plotlines sorta die too. Dany is the obvious one, but I think Jon counts too. Arya and Sansa would fit into this role as of the end of A Feast for Crows but I don't think in either's case, especially Sansa's, that it will last. Bran does at the moment and may continue on for awhile, as the center of one of the few mystical/magical plots going on now. Jon and Dany, I believe, have a meeting far in the future to settle some things, Ice and Fire style. They could die towards the very very end, I guess, but I don't think I count end-of-story deaths in the same vein as some of the big names we saw go so far, i.e. deaths that we need to deal with.

I can see very awesome, worthwhile deaths for people like Jaime (another candidate for favorite character), Brienne, Stannis, Cersei... mm, Asha may or may not fit into the above carrying-a-plotline-by-herself invincible status. I would hate these deaths as much as I hated the other deaths, but again... I know what I've got myself into. :p

...and yes, it was Lady. :( Only part of the books I skim through on rereading due to horrible sad cruel feelings!


One day, the series having been completed, I wish to return to this post. I suspect I would mock my naive self...


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Well, I for one think that:
Spoiler:
Its rather difficult to keep up with this thread when EVERYTHING cool is in spoilers that I refuse to read because I have not read the books yet and don't want to ruin it!!! Grrrr.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:31 pm 
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Keep on troopin' on, LK! It will be worth it in the end!


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:35 pm 
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I hope so. I'm really really really enjoying the show! I can tell though that I would probably absolutely love the books, but I don't want to ruin it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Some guy put together an infographic to help untangle (err, correctly tangle?) the web of house relationships and whatnot involved in the show.

He's keeping it so there are no spoilers for things yet to be aired on the show, so if you're current on TV, it's safe.

Kind of neat, thought I'd share. Minor quibbles with some choices he made in constructing it (why are the Baratheons brown? Their colors are black and gold. And the Lannisters favor red as their primary color over the gold...), but pretty well done.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:21 am 
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Holy carp. That's complex. And I've read the books ;)

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