The Glade 4.0

Khross is a collective donkey?

I thought he aborred all forms of collectivism.

Maybe he's just a donkey. Or ***.


(ok, this was simply too good to let pass, this is not intended as a serious disparagment.)

LOL at the conspiracy stuff.

Anyway, burying him at sea was a BRILLIANT move. No funeral, no body to be visited or mourned, no overblown celebration to piss people off, nothing. Just *poof* you're old news.

Obama Admin+2 on that call.

I was raised to believe what my government told me. But this has happened so much and so often that I must have a verified body to believe now. This is not the first nor even the second time that we have been told Bin Laden was dead.

Trust but verify

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

The DNA evidence or photos are as credible as an actual body, since regardless, you personally don't get to handle either, and wouldn't, even if they kept it. If one doesn't believe them now, them holding onto the body wouldn't change that.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

First time we were told he was shot by our troops and his body disposed of. There were other instances where we thought he might have been killed.

There's no conspiracy stuff at all.

Disposing of whatever body they had simply means we have to accept our government, an agency comprised of politicians, at their word. It's funny how every says they believe politicians lie, but when they do something so utterly questionable and suspicious; no one is willing to believe they are lying.

Where's the proof? Because, as it stands, all we have are the assertions of our President, who can't even be bothered to tell the truth about jobs or the economy. A President who has outright lied about transparency in his administration; Guantanamo bay; and any number of other things.

All politicians lie.

Barack Obama is a politician.

Therefore, Barack Obama lies.

What reason do I have to believe him on this matter when the evidence was destroyed?

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I meant America's donkey.... you communist.

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Actually, it wouldn't make me immediately suspicious of their motives. Destroying the primary evidence so rapidly ...

Well, that's just **** stupid (and would be criminal in pretty much every other situation).

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This.


This.


And definitely this.

Agreed.

Damn Obama, and the US government which has systematically destroyed any shred of trust that I once had. They finally have pushed me to argue politics! *shudder*

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Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!

Fixed it for you.

But you are utterly missing the point. People lie when they can get away with it.

If I lie and say I'm actually 6'8", a billionare, and featured regularly on the cover of People magazine as the world's sexiest man, YES I have something to gain, but no one will belive me and its obviously not verifiable. I wont get away with it.


Given how easy it would be for Al Queda to blow that lie out of the water, I think you're just being paranoid now.


But just so we can get you on record:
At this moment, do you believe Bin Laden to be dead?

Again, it's brilliant, not questionable and suspicious.



Well, that and the DNA samples.



Ok, his credibility is not great, but that doesn't automatically mean this is a lie. Furthermore, what you are talking about would be a conspiracy. Lastly, a comparable lie of this magnitude would be something along the lines of "no, I already closed Guantanamo". Not, "I'll close it in a year - oops, that was too hard."



Therefore OBL is not dead? Holy leap in logic, Batman!



1) DNA samples were taken (give it time on that).
2) The gov is too incompetent to pull off what you are discussing. Your faith in Obama's administration is far to lenient on that point.
3) The fact that you have no evidence this did not take place? You decry the lack of evidence and then just ASSUME it's false, with no evidence either way? Even if you blow off all reports and discussion provided, you have even LESS evidence to suggest this was faked.

I don't know if he's alive or dead. I have no evidence either way at this point ...

I've been presented no credible evidence either way.

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Fixed.

And yet, it's enough to make the following assessment:

I have our government, albeit a different administration, claiming he was dead prior to this ...

I have our government, across both this administration and the last, repeatedly claiming certain Al Qaeda officers to be dead (with proof) when they were not ...

And now I have my government claiming Bin Laden is dead, and we destroyed the evidence ...

You're assuming the government wouldn't try to lie about this; history indicates they've already tried in the past.

Seems to me that people are too willing to trust on something they think is non-falsifiable because of some competence check. I just think the man is lying for political expedience, as that's the easiest explanation for the actions we've been given.

There are all sorts of ways to dispose of a body, especially since it could have been inside the U.S. for full forensic analysis in less than 24 hours. Now, I don't think the facilities on our Aircraft Carriers are sub par in the least; but the best way to handle this was not to do the following ...

Say, "Hey, we killed Bin Laden; oh, and by the way, we destroyed primary evidence, too ... you'll just have to trust us."

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This actually sounds a lot like you're saying he wasn't killed. So make up your mind.

If the claim is true its not bullshit and he is dead.
If the claim is false then it is bullshit and he is alive.

So take a stand. Do you or do you not belive bin Laden is dead as the result of US action. Otherwise stop spouting off about it being a lie and just say "I need more evidence."

All those things are evidence that govornments lie. They are NOT proof that he is dead or alive.

Arathain:

You're not fixing anything. Destroying the body, should it actually have been Bin Laden's, is **** stupid. Point blank stupid. It ranks among the most incompetent things our government could have chosen to do; and, given the current President's credibility issues; and the last President's credibility issues ...

It simply creates more than sufficient reason to believe this is little more than a politically expedient ploy.

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Again, seeking clarification: So you belive there are NO legitimate reasons to have disposed of the body?

Arathain, if this thread + the birth certificate thread are any evidence then it is much more fashionable to chalk your own paranoia up to "fringe-tinfoil hatters" than to admit they are yours.

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0 legitimate reasons to dispose of the body in the time frame given. None, at all.

As for your prior post, that's a false dilemma ...

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More dancing and backpeddling on your part Khross. I'm reasonably certain that everyone here understood you to mean that you don't believe that bin Laden is dead at the hands of US operatives.

So either admit that your poor communication skills mislead us about your beliefs. (which would imply that you're not quite the master of language you think you are)

OR

Admit that you're backpeddling and are having to revise your original statement and hasty claims about the reports being false and are instead replacing them with "It looks suspicious and I dont trust the gov't but can't really make a statement about the actual veracity of the event"

You're still giving False Dilemmas, TheRiov ... keep trying, though ...

I have no reason to believe Bin Lade is dead at the hands of U.S. operatives; I have less reason to believe that now that the government is claiming to have destroyed the primary evidence ...

This doesn't preclude Bin Laden from being dead. This actually doesn't preclude him from being dead at the hand of U.S. operatives. It does, however, preclude the President from making pronouncements to that effect with any degree of honesty.

You see, there's a whole spectrum of options here ...

Please, do try again.

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