The Glade 4.0

...and, when it does, how often and long are they able to protect that lie from public scrutiny?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I don't think they lie that much. Maybe minimally. Most of them are good people just trying to do their best.

And, if they do lie, it's not done conspiratorially. Individuals may lie to cover their asses, or because they're incompetent, but I don't think there are directives that come down from shadowy operatives to intentionally deceive. Reps, or Dems.

Not to say there isn't a lot of myopia going on. They may not even know they're lying.

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This cold and dark tormented hell
Is all I`ll ever know
So when you get to heaven
May the devil be the judge

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Movie Name: Babylon 5 (1994)
Quote:
Commander Jeffrey David Sinclair: Everyone lies, Michael. The
innocent lie because they dont want to be blamed for something
they didnt do and the guilty lie because they dont have any other
choice.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me
█ ♣ █

Yes, the government lies to us constantly. That's why we need to make sure we elect my people as soon as possible.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

We could get into a long drawn-out glade style debate about what constitutes a lie, and I'd also be curious if by government, are we talking at the institutional level, or are we talking individual politicians?

I don't think there is a whole lot of outright lying.. i.e. saying "No" when the know the truth is actually "Yes". Unfortunately there is a LOT of grey area (and very little grey matter) in between.

I believe that there is a lot of convenient truth, creative omissions, and mis-information coming my way at pretty much every level of government. Most politicians that get past an election are smart enough to not lie directly about things that they know they will get caught in. There is a lot of telling me what they think I want to hear, and not telling me what I don't want to hear.

Good examples are when it's budget cutting time, and they are justifying laying off teachers, police, fire, and closing parks, but they aren't telling you about the 20 million dollar extension to the local art museum that they aren't cutting because of some promise they made to a lobbyist.

What about instances like the Bay of Pigs, Gingrich and the CPI, and Iraqi WMDs?

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

I'd say the question is far too broad to be usefully addressed. Just trying to define when it's "the government" lying as opposed to some individual politician or functionary. not to mention the proclivity of pretty much everyone for claiming viewpoints they disagree with are "lies", it's hard to even find a starting point.

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"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."

You could certainly find a ton of specific examples of politicians getting caught lying. There is no doubt that it happens.

I think a better question is, considering all of the information released by the government, including statements made by elected officials, what percentage of it is 'true'?

The "government" doesn't lie. Individuals and small groups lie.

The government isn't out to get us. We're all on the same side. Government employees and elected officials go to work to do their jobs, just like everyone else.

We're all sinners. We all lie at some point or another. Sometimes we get together and we all tell the same lie. Why do you feel anyone in the government is/should be any different? That doesn't mean we excuse any individual caught in their lie. We can deal with them based on the situation.

I don't think a person under the government can hold a lie for very long due to the level of scrutiny. Clinton's indiscretions caught up with him in the end.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Of course they lie, it's a matter of degree and reason, but "every body lies."

We know the government lies to us, its just a matter of why.

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A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ~ John Stuart Mill

This. Colin Powell wasn't lying when he said Iraq had WMD factories, he believed the information the administration received from some Iraqi ex-pat, who had every reason to lie, was true.

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Wrong, they work to keep their jobs. They make laws to make their jobs look needed and they spend a lot of money doing it. The only side a person in a .gov position is on is their own.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I think both of you are a little extreme there or at least over generalizing.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Maybe a little, but history shows governments generally work to gain more power for themselves. It's not a grand conspiracy, it's the nature of politicking and a country's citizens need to remain vigilant.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Now that I can agree with.

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I prefer to think of them as "Fighting evil in another dimension"

Fixed it for you. This is true in corporations, governments and any other structured organization. The easiest way for individuals to get more power is expand their role which makes it seem like bureaucracies grow by themselves.

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