The Glade 4.0

I still find it interesting how the United States can waltz 30 miles into any country it wants, kill some people, and leave. And everyone seems to think this is perfectly fine.

Folks in Pakistan don't think it's fine. But what are they going to do about it?

Battle of Columbus

At approximately 4:17 am on March 9, 1916, Villa's troops attacked Columbus, New Mexico and its local detachment of the U.S. 13th Cavalry Regiment, killing 10 civilians and 8 soldiers and wounding 2 civilians and 6 soldiers, for a total of 18 killed and 8 wounded.[3][4] The raiders also burned the town, took many horses and mules and seized available machine guns, ammunition and merchandise, before they returned to Mexico. However, Villa's troops suffered considerable losses, with at least sixty-seven dead. About thirteen others would later die of their wounds. Five Mexicans were taken prisoner and later executed. The raid may have been spurred by an American merchant in Columbus who supplied Villa with weapons and ammunition. After Villa paid several thousand dollars in cash in advance, the merchant decided to stop supplying him with weapons and demanded payment in gold.

On March 15,[5] on orders from President Woodrow Wilson, General John J. Pershing led an expeditionary force of 4,800 men into Mexico to capture Villa, who had already had more than a week to disperse and conceal his forces before the punitive expedition tried to seek them out in unmapped terrain. Beginning March 19, the newly adopted Curtiss "Jenny" airplane was used by the 1st Provisional Aero Squadron to conduct aerial reconnaissance.[6]

Pershing divided his force into two columns to seek out Villa, and made his main base encampment at Casas Grandes, Chihuahua. Due to disputes with the Carranza administration over the use of the Mexico North Western Railway to supply his troops, the Army employed a truck-train system to convoy supplies to the encampment and the Signal Corps set up wireless telegraph service from the border to Pershing's HQ. In June, Lieutenant George S. Patton raided a small community and killed Julio Cárdenas, an important leader in the Villista military organization, and two other men. Patton personally killed Cardenas, and is reported to have carved notches into his revolvers.[7]

On June 21,[8] U.S. forces, including elements of the 7th Cavalry and the African-American U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment, attacked Mexican Federal army troops in an engagement in the Battle of Carrizal, Chihuahua, resulting in many cavalry troops becoming prisoners of the Federals, and effectively ending the 10th Cavalry's usefulness in the campaign.[1] Another skirmish with Federals took place north of Parral, Chihuahua on April 12. Carranza sent General Jacinto Treviño to warn Pershing of armed Federal resistance to any further advances of Pershing's forces into other areas; troop movements north to the border would be the only movements acceptable to the Carranza government.

While the expedition did make contact with Villista formations and killed two of his generals, it failed in its major objectives, neither stopping border raids – which continued while the expedition was in Mexico, although both National Guard troops and Texas Rangers were stationed on the border – nor capturing Villa. However, between the date of the American withdrawal and Villa's retirement in 1920, Villa's troops were no longer an effective fighting force, being hemmed in by American and Mexican federal troops and money and arms blockades on both sides of the border.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

See, this is where you are going terribly astray IMO. First, what makes you think any evidence at all SHOULD be provided to me personally for my consumption?

I disagree with all of this 100%.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

I wonder how many of these people also think we don't execute criminals or demand to see the body and run DNA analysis to ensure the government truly is exectuing people?

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Wow, you guys really don't understand the criticisms at all do you?

Incidentally, executions are subject to multiple witnesses and parallel verification paths. There are also several years of legal and procedural events prior to their occurrence. Likewise, the bodies are autopsied and inspected after execution; not disposed off in a questionable manner.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

In fact, this is ultimately you're entire justification for dismissing all legitimate criticism of their behavior.

Your arguments are irrational because weak evidence is not better than no evidence. The fact that you think negative evidence must exist to create doubt in a statement indicates a fundamentally irrational view in and of itself.

I truly don't. The entire Seal Team Six as well as the entire officer staff (at least) of the carrier in question are witnesses. At least 1/2 the administration would have to be in on the lie, as well as the CIA, Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, NSA, Osama's family, Pakistani officials, al-Qaida leadership and Osama Bin Laden himself would have to be involved in the cover-up. That is too many pieces/parts to assume NO ONE would leak the truth to the press. This is at least as ridiculous as the spare-change video from 9/11.

Stop being irrational, dude.

In comic strips the person on the left always speaks first. - George Carlin

I truly don't. The entire Seal Team Six as well as the entire officer staff (at least) of the carrier in question are witnesses. At least 1/2 the administration would have to be in on the lie, as well as the CIA, Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, NSA, Osama's family, Pakistani officials, al-Qaida leadership and Osama Bin Laden himself would have to be involved in the cover-up. That is too many pieces/parts to assume NO ONE would leak the truth to the press. This is at least as ridiculous as the spare-change video from 9/11.

I truly don't. The entire Seal Team Six as well as the entire officer staff (at least) of the carrier in question are witnesses. At least 1/2 the administration would have to be in on the lie, as well as the CIA, Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, NSA, Osama's family, Pakistani officials, al-Qaida leadership and Osama Bin Laden himself would have to be involved in the cover-up. That is too many pieces/parts to assume NO ONE would leak the truth to the press. This is at least as ridiculous as the spare-change video from 9/11.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

... so as further detail emerge

Ok, now you really are being a hypocrite. I have not come anywhere close to dismissing all legitimate criticism, I have criticized them, and I will continue to do so as further detail emerge. I am assuming the actions actually happened, and you are taking that and assigning me arguments I have not made, while out of the other side of your mouth complaining about people doing this to you.

No, that's complete nonsense. It is not irrational to believe what you are told without evidence to the contrary. If I were to believe in spite of contrary evidence, that would be irrational.

By your logic, I have to get concrete proof to back up any claim I am told, otherwise assume it didn't happen. So, my wife didn't go to work today. I'm not getting paid at the end of this week. A friend of mine doesn't have a box of cigars for me.

THAT is completely irrational.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.

Which details would those be? What 'facts' will you accept as legitimate vs those that might be questionable?

Tell me about your BS sensor? What criteria do you use to decide if something doesn't seem 'right' ?

Pardon me if my ignorance is showing here, but isn't it a coinkidink that Obama was doing kind of poorly in the public opinion arena and then in like the span of one week magically produces his birth certificate and OBL?
That alone seems fishy to me...just the circumstances and timing. I'm trying to follow along with all the arguing here (unsuccessfully) and would just like to say that I still have doubts...that pic of the presidents face (that look can't be faked) indicates to me that SOMETHING big was going on, but whether it was actually OBL or not, I dunno. I'm still not entirely convinced, and even if it does turn out to be true, I'm still concerned about the timing and the motivation. There are senators that have stated that they have known *we* knew his specific location since at least December of last year....if that is true, how long have they really known? And what about the reports that he died several years ago from natural causes?
I'm pretty confused. All I know is that something doesn't seem as cut and dry as "omg we just all of a sudden found OBL after 10 years and executed him!"

Except, your posts are entirely dismissive the entire thread. There is ample evidence that you are not willing to accept any criticism.

If you claim to have killed someone, then the primary piece of material evidence is their corpse. If you destroy that corpse, you destroy the only actual vehicle for verification of the deed. Consequently, the deed becomes fundamentally unverifiable. You can provide substantial evidence, but as has been noted by you and other: the government has no impetus to do so.

So your faith is irrational? You have evidence (the Bible) that Christ, Son of God, was crucified. You have evidence he existed. You do not have proof. You must take it on faith.

That is, amusingly, an actual parallel to this situation. A death has been claimed without a body. Even keeping the body increases the credibility of the Government's claims.

It's not irrational at all. You're simply not considering everything constitutes evidence in faith of believing those claims. Past history is one thing (which I've included in my suppositions on the Bin Laden matter); behavioral tendencies are another ...

It is, however, completely irrational to accept evidence that cannot be verified as somehow superior to no evidence at all.

Well, anytime there is conflicting (apparently legitimate) information, I withold judgement. For example, "after" a firefight, he was killed. then it was he was unarmed, but resisted. And there's an unreferenced report that he was captured and executed.

I don't buy any particular version, but none of it indicates he didn't get shot there. Meanwhile, the cynic in me would totally believe that he was executed, but I'm witholding judgement for now.

In fact, conflicting reports is to be expected. If there were no conflicting reports of details, it would smell a little fishy to me for that reason.

Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.