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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Except, the general consensus is conservative in nature. Again, there is absolutely no way to have an unbiased moderation.

Go to hellfire, get scorched. It's simple, it's easy, and it works.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:34 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Except, the general consensus is conservative in nature. Again, there is absolutely no way to have an unbiased moderation.


The board, until this iteration, had a liberal moderator for years. I reject this assertion as false.

Monty wrote:
Go to hellfire, get scorched. It's simple, it's easy, and it works.


Except that you interrupt all civil discourse. Any behavior similar to yours does so as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:34 am 
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Yes, great idea- lets make a subsection, and then declare it beyond hope.

It shouldn't be possible to have a place to coherently and pleasantly discuss world politics and happenings, that would just be impossible!

Mature adults shouldn't be able to discuss things they disagree about without yelling at each other!

Everyone seems content to write off hellfire as just that- an un-moderated cesspool. But why?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:42 am 
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NephyrS wrote:
Everyone seems content to write off hellfire as just that- an un-moderated cesspool. But why?


Because sometimes it just feels good? I try to stay out of there. Most folks around here are way to worked up over some of the issues.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:26 am 
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I go back and forth. I really enjoy the analyses of some posters, but the way some people ::cough:: get so worked up really ruins the discussions.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:19 am 
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Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:39 am 
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Uinan wrote:
I'd trust Michael to do it.
He has built a reputation for acting as a fairly moderate voice of reason over the past ~10 years.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:42 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.



There is a definite problem there. However, that forum has major problems beyond just one person. To be precise it's a cesspool of many of the most disgusting traits humanity has to offer. It's like most people who post there decide that this is where they should leave any civility they may have learned in life behind and act like barbarians.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:45 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.


Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem... and you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:47 am 
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Taamar wrote:
Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem...

Unfortunately, this is very much NOT the case. I wish it were, but it's really not.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:49 am 
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Stathol wrote:
Taamar wrote:
Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem...

Unfortunately, this is very much NOT the case. I wish it were, but it's really not.


To an extent it is. Or at least, there'd be less of a problem.

Monty's posting style in hellfire is like some strange child in a playground who goes up to all the other kids and screams uncontrollably in their faces nonstop for no apparent reason most of the time.

However, the rest of you act like the kids in the playground who in response circle around and kick the **** out of the strange screaming child, day after day.

Both are problems.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:53 am 
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Taamar wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.


Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem... and you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.


When people don't poke at him first, he pokes them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:54 am 
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Talya wrote:
However, the rest of you act like the kids in the playground who in response circle around and kick the **** out of the strange screaming child, day after day.

Both are problems.


I poke them all with a very long stick.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:54 am 
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Taamar wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.


Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem... and you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.



Sorry, that doesn't fly any more. He has been given chance after chance. This ain't about me. I've ignored him, I've badgered him, I'm been nice to him(as well as just about everyone else he has had a run in with). He acts the same no matter what to everyone. Monty is the problem, plain and simple. Everyone knows it, no one wants to do anything about it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:33 am 
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Taamar wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.
Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem... and you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.
Monty's antics are the same even in threads that Nitefox hasn't participated in. So no, if Nitefox stops poking Monty it will not solve the problem in the slightest. I would remind everyone that Monty even decided to take his ball and go home a few weeks before Glade 3.0 crashed, and yet here he is back in Hellfire. Nobody was poking him. Nobody even thought about him.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:35 am 
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Nitefox wrote:

Sorry, that doesn't fly any more. He has been given chance after chance. This ain't about me. I've ignored him, I've badgered him, I'm been nice to him(as well as just about everyone else he has had a run in with). He acts the same no matter what to everyone. Monty is the problem, plain and simple. Everyone knows it, no one wants to do anything about it.


So use the ignore feature.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:37 am 
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Corolinth wrote:
Taamar wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Again, someone just have the balls to keep Monty out of Hellfire and we won't have any problems. If he pitches a fit in other areas, then ban his ***. Why are we making this hard? We know what the problem is, let's just address it.
Stop poking at Monte in Hellfire and we won't have a problem... and you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.
Monty's antics are the same even in threads that Nitefox hasn't participated in. So no, if Nitefox stops poking Monty it will not solve the problem in the slightest. I would remind everyone that Monty even decided to take his ball and go home a few weeks before Glade 3.0 crashed, and yet here he is back in Hellfire. Nobody was poking him. Nobody even thought about him.


Sorry that I was unclear... that wasn't aimed at Nitefox specifically... it was a 'Y'all knock it off'. I know Monty is... uh... volatile. I just stopped posting in Hellfire because everyone seemsw to want standards of behavior to apply only to the other guys.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:39 am 
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Taamar wrote:
Nitefox wrote:

Sorry, that doesn't fly any more. He has been given chance after chance. This ain't about me. I've ignored him, I've badgered him, I'm been nice to him(as well as just about everyone else he has had a run in with). He acts the same no matter what to everyone. Monty is the problem, plain and simple. Everyone knows it, no one wants to do anything about it.


So use the ignore feature.



Why can't he just fix his behavior? You want us to fix ours when it comes to dealing with him, how bout he just not be an ******* all the time(within Hellfire...while I don't like him at all, he doesn't seem to an *** in other forums)? Plus, the embedded quote thing kind of defeats the ignore feature.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:44 am 
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Nitefox wrote:
Why can't he just fix his behavior? You want us to fix ours when it comes to dealing with him, how bout he just not be an ******* all the time(within Hellfire...while I don't like him at all, he doesn't seem to an *** in other forums)? Plus, the embedded quote thing kind of defeats the ignore feature.


I think this was the answer:

Taamar wrote:
you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.


You can't change someone else's behavior, but you can change your own.
There are things that irritate me on here, but not enough to warrant banning anybody. I'll either reply and let myself get all worked up or I'll ignore it.

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 Post subject: Re: Minutia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:52 am 
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It's somewhat the same principle as a screaming child in a movie theater. You can just ignore that, you know.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:53 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Nitefox wrote:
Why can't he just fix his behavior? You want us to fix ours when it comes to dealing with him, how bout he just not be an ******* all the time(within Hellfire...while I don't like him at all, he doesn't seem to an *** in other forums)? Plus, the embedded quote thing kind of defeats the ignore feature.


I think this was the answer:

Taamar wrote:
you have absolute control of YOUR actions in a way that you can't control his.


You can't change someone else's behavior, but you can change your own.
There are things that irritate me on here, but not enough to warrant banning anybody. I'll either reply and let myself get all worked up or I'll ignore it.



Then we disagree. There are things on here that irritate me enough to have someone banned or at least removed from a certain section. Since we know Monty will never change, I say he needs to be denied access to Hellfire and then that will fix the biggest problem on this board. Like I said in another thread, other than when Lex gets into troll mode, Monty stirring **** up in Hellfire with everyone that dares disagree with him is this boards biggest problem. Yeah we have flare ups from time to time, but they usually last a few pages and that's it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:55 am 
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... I may regret doing this, but what the hell. Someone has to.

Talya wrote:
To an extent it is. Or at least, there'd be less of a problem.

I'm well aware that Montegue isn't the only problem. He's just far and away the worst offender, and has consistently been so across a very long posting history. And while it may not precisely excuse it, much of the other behavior you see is fueled by his vitriol and the impotence to do anything about it because of a complete lack of any moderation.

Yes, there's some kicking and biting being done by others, but ultimately it changes nothing. I used to believe that it would, but it won't. It used to even bother me a little bit, but at this point, I've utterly written Montegue off. I just don't care when anyone says to or about him anymore. I really don't. If you think that Montegue's behavior would change even one iota if everyone started treating him with the utmost of civility, then forgive me, but you haven't been paying attention. Understandable, if you've been avoiding Hellfire.

You see, I tried that tact for many, many years here. I may have asked sharp questions and challenged his nonsense, but to the best of my ability, I've remained civil. I have received nothing but ranting, screaming, name-calling and abuse for my efforts, and I'm certainly not the only one.

So you know what? **** him. I've held my tongue about this for entirely too long. I have finally well and truly snapped.

Montegue:

You have done nothing but **** up every topic you "participate" in for as long as I can remember, but in the last 2 years or so, it has become completely intolerable. It is unbearably ironic when you call anyone else a hate-mongerer, etc. You are beyond any shadow of a doubt the most hateful person I have ever had the misfortune of interacting with, in person or even on the **** Internet. You deserve no quarter and I am no longer frustrated by the behavior of others when they refuse to give it to you. Are they sometimes rude, childish, and vindictive in their responses to you? Yes. But you know something? You have it coming to you in **** SPADES. You reap what you **** sow, so don't ***** to me about your bitter harvest.

This well is completely tapped out. I can no longer bring myself to have any measure of sympathy for you. The only thing that others can say about you that will still annoy me are things like: "Monte can't understand logic ...", "Montegue can't engage in rational discussion", blah, blah, blah. Bullshit. If that were true, you would be a figure of pity, not of scorn. The truth is much more damning: Montegue won't be rational. Montegue won't stop dehumanizing and slandering everyone who doesn't fit with his little world-view. Montegue won't engage in civil behavior. This "minor" difference in choice of verbs makes all the difference in the world. Maybe this "can't" business works for other people, you're not getting off of my hook with it.

YOU are responsible for your atrocious behavior, and it is atrocious. I honestly know of no other board that would have tolerated so much for so long. You love to rant about a conservative bias in the moderation staff here. Let me clue you in on something, **** -- it is only because of the extreme tolerance that the moderation staff on this board has shown to you even still exist on this board to rant and scream about it. FarSky has given you far, far more leeway and forgiveness than you would have received anywhere else. You have been given chance after chance after chance to clean up your act, and you refuse to do it, always blaming everyone but yourself for you vile behavior.

It was not but a few weeks ago that you actually accused Beryllin of being a anti-semite, for ****'s sake. I truly can't imagine any other message board where that would have earned you anything other than an instant ban, and possibly even a permanent one at that. And goodness knows, I've had my share of arguments with Bery, so don't even try your stupid "oh, you're just a conservative jumping to Bery's aid" bullshit. Your accusations are extremely out of line, to see the least. To but to say what I honestly think, they demonstrate what a vile and hateful person you really have become.

But the really damning thing in all of this? Up until very recently I was probably one of the few remaining people on this board that would be willing to come to your defense. When FarSky unbanned you for Hellfire on Glade 3.0, I thought it was probably a bad idea, but you know what -- I actually agreed with it. I was willing, against all better judgment, to give you your Nth chance, here. I'm one of those people that just has trouble saying no. Your behavior has been so relentlessly horrible that you have managed to alienate even that precious handful of people that were still begrudgingly willing to be your advocate. This ought to mean something to you, but I'm not holding out any hope.

Do you know that in my entire history not just on the Internet, but stretching all the way back to the shadowed corners of BBSes when the online world was small and disconnected, I have never once put anyone on ignore? Not once on any message board or in any game have I felt the need to avail myself of that function. I don't think it's inaccurate at all to say that my tolerance level for other posters is about as high as you're going to ever find in this world. And yet for the first time and damn near 20 years of digital discourse, I actually find myself giving serious consideration to using for the very first time. I wish I had the words to express to you just how utterly **** up that is, but I probably don't. And moreover, even if I had the words, I now fully believe that they would fall on deaf ears. Because all of your bleeding-heart posturing to the contrary, you don't really give a **** about anyone other than yourself and your own precious little feelings.

But at the end of the day, I know of nothing that I could say about you which is more terrible than this. It is something that regardless of any arguments past or present, and regardless of any altercations or tantrums thrown, I cannot honestly say of any other poster here:

You contribute nothing of value to this community.

TL;DR -- In this thread, Stathol finally flips the **** out and gives it to Montegue with both barrels.

Mods/admins/interested parties: if I just earned myself a ban/suspension for this, I understand completely. I certainly wouldn't hold it against you.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:01 am 
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Stathol wrote:
If you think that Montegue's behavior would change even one iota if everyone started treating him with the utmost of civility, then forgive me, but you haven't been paying attention.


No, I really don't think it would change. I think there'd be less of a problem if people simply ignored every nasty posts he makes, rather than reply with their own, because then there would only be one person making the damning posts rather than several. People could maybe read some actual discourse simply by ignoring one "contributor." As it is, every single thread is simply a **** of people screaming at each other. That said, actual moderation would help. Either the problematic posts would stop, or they'd be made to stop.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:06 am 
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Well spoken, Stathol.


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 Post subject: Re: Minutia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:43 am 
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See, with active moderators in place, the chance of Stathol reaching that breaking point and placing himself at risk of action would have been decreased. This would be a prime example of some of the collateral damage caused that could have been prevented.

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