The Glade 4.0

"Turn the lights down, the party just got wilder."
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 4:14 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:06 am 
Offline
Doom Patrol
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:31 am
Posts: 1145
Location: The subtropics
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1103/p02s18-usju.html

Quote:
Washington - The US Supreme Court on Wednesday is set to consider an unusual question: Do Americans who have been framed by unscrupulous prosecutors for crimes they did not commit have a right to sue the prosecutors when the fraud is finally exposed?

According to the Obama administration, the answer is no.

Solicitor General Elena Kagan argues in a friend of the court brief that local, state, and federal prosecutors must enjoy absolute immunity from citizen lawsuits – even when they sent innocent men to prison for life by fabricating incriminating evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.

Those are the allegations in a case from Iowa set for oral argument on Wednesday morning. According to legal briefs filed in the case, prosecutors in Pottawattamie County, Iowa, solicited false testimony implicating two innocent African-American teens in the murder of a recently retired police officer in 1977. At trial, the false testimony led to their convictions. They were sent to prison for life.

When the false testimony and other exculpatory evidence was discovered, the two innocent men, Curtis McGhee and Terry Harrington, were released after 25 years in prison. They filed a lawsuit against the prosecutors.

The question before the high court is whether the prosecutors can be held accountable in a civil trial or instead are entitled to absolute immunity from such lawsuits.

"If the allegations here are true, [the Iowa officials] engaged in prosecutorial misconduct of an execrable sort, involving a complete breach of the public trust," Solicitor General Kagan writes in her brief to the court. "But absolute immunity reflects a policy judgment that such conduct is properly addressed not through civil liability, but through a host of other deterrents and punishments."

_________________
Memento Vivere

I have local knowledge.
That sandbar was not there yesterday!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:15 am 
Offline
Perfect Equilibrium
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 3127
Location: Coffin Corner
The proscecuter should have to serve the same term he falsely imprisoned people to or something. Immunity to lawsuits, I can see where this would be useful, but the court should be able to determine whether or not "prosecutorial misconduct" occurred or not. Therefore, suing the DA or DA's office doesn't seem likely to be abused.

_________________
"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:21 am 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
If they fabricate evidence or fail to provide disclosure to teh defense of exculpatory evidence they should be disbarred, forced to repay the individual and sentenced to at least the same term the defendent was setenced to.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm 
Offline
Manchurian Mod
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:40 am
Posts: 5866
**** what the Obama administration thinks.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

_________________
Buckle your pants or they might fall down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:19 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Constitution - whats that?

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:26 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
What's the defense for the Obama Administration on this one?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:45 am
Posts: 889
Khross wrote:
What's the defense for the Obama Administration on this one?


That ordinary citizens do not have standing, of course. DUH!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 9412
I would love to see the ACLU take on the administration on this in the media. I'm not holding my breath, even though the defendants are black, too.

_________________
"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:57 pm 
Offline
Perfect Equilibrium
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 3127
Location: Coffin Corner
Poor ACLU, they have so many pending lawsuits, they must be drowning in paper work. They file lawsuits more than posts get reported around here ... oops.

_________________
"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2169
For those interested in considerably more information about this case.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:59 pm 
Offline
Oberon's Playground
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 am
Posts: 9449
Location: Your Dreams
Rafael wrote:
Poor ACLU, they have so many pending lawsuits, they must be drowning in paper work. They file lawsuits more than posts get reported around here ... oops.



This post was reported, because Müs is a practical-joking troublemaker. So cut something out, and don't do it anymore. Whatever it is. And don't tell me about it later.

Carry on.

_________________
Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
But master you in luck 'cause up your sleeves you got a brand of magic never fails...
...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

█ ♣ █


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:03 pm 
Offline
Perfect Equilibrium
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 3127
Location: Coffin Corner
I see what you did there.

_________________
"It's real, grew up in trife life, the times of white lines
The hype vice, murderous nighttimes and knife fights invite crimes" - Nasir Jones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:19 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
I dislike the idea of qualified immunity as its often cited to protect ignorant, arrogant, and malciious actors.

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:28 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
:mrgreen:

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
This is not an Obama issue, this is a government issue. Were any other person president, the position of the administration would be the same.

That said, this will be very interesting to see where this ends up. The administration is trying to prevent an avalanche of frivolous lawsuits that could potentially cripple the legal system.

I personally am torn on this one. On the main hand, I dislike anyone being "above the law" and feel that if there really are grievances, there needs to be a method for redress (i.e. lawsuits). However, I can appreciate the governments concerns about a tide of lawsuits coming in for perceived wrongs that would delay the already slow legal process.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:03 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Yes lets not persue the coprruption of the legal system because it might become annoying for a bit.

If they are knowingly introducing testimony they know to be false or pruposefully hindering the introduction of evidence they need to go away (preferrably six feet away).

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:07 pm 
Offline
Evil Bastard™
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 7542
Location: Doomstadt, Latveria
Aizle:

What would your defense be should Obama strangle a kitten on television and post it on his MySpace?

_________________
Corolinth wrote:
Facism is not a school of thought, it is a racial slur.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:09 pm 
Offline
I got nothin.
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm
Posts: 11160
Location: Arafys, AKA El Müso Guapo!
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

What would your defense be should Obama strangle a kitten on television and post it on his MySpace?



The kitten had it coming.

_________________
Image
Holy shitsnacks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:11 pm 
Offline
Commence Primary Ignition
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am
Posts: 15740
Location: Combat Information Center
Elmarnieh wrote:
Yes lets not persue the coprruption of the legal system because it might become annoying for a bit.

If they are knowingly introducing testimony they know to be false or pruposefully hindering the introduction of evidence they need to go away (preferrably six feet away).


Working for the DEpartment of Redundancy Department?

In all seriousness, there should be no immunity for prosecutors for knowingly fabricating evidence or otherwise framing someone. The police aren't immune for this sort of thing; don't see why lawyers should be.

On the other hand, there definitely should be immunity from lawsuits for people who are convicted in good faith and later found innocent. While they deserve compensation, it shouldn't come from people who did what they were supposed to do.

_________________
"Hysterical children shrieking about right-wing anything need to go sit in the corner and be quiet while the adults are talking."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:14 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Aizle wrote:
This is not an Obama issue, this is a government issue.


Quote:
Solicitor General Elena Kagan argues in a friend of the court brief that local, state, and federal prosecutors must enjoy absolute immunity from citizen lawsuits – even when they sent innocent men to prison for life by fabricating incriminating evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Solicitor_General
Quote:
The United States Solicitor General is the person appointed to represent the Government of the United States before the Supreme Court of the United States. Currently, the Solicitor General is Elena Kagan, who was confirmed by the United States Senate on March 19, 2009.

The Solicitor General determines the legal position that the United States will take in the Supreme Court. In addition to supervising and conducting cases in which the government is a party, the Solicitor General's office also files amicus curiae briefs in cases in which the federal government has a significant interest in the legal issue. The Solicitor General's office argues on behalf of the government in virtually every case in which the United States is a party, and also argues in most of the cases in which the government has filed an amicus brief. In the federal courts of appeals, the Office of the Solicitor General reviews cases decided against the United States and determines whether the government will seek review in the Supreme Court. The Solicitor General's office also reviews cases decided against the United States in the federal district courts and approves every case in which the government files an appeal.

She was appointed by and continues to serve at the discretion of Obama to be the legal advocate of the entire United States federal government. So yes, it is very much Obama's problem.

Aizle wrote:
Were any other person president, the position of the administration would be the same.

This is speculation. It may be true (I suspect it would be for the previous administration, at least), but it's still speculation. And it didn't happen under any other president, it happened under Obama. If the Solicitor General isn't the responsibility of the sitting president, then whose responsibility is (s)he?

But regardless of that, what you say is no defense. Essentially, it's like saying: "It's not my problem that I knocked over a liquor store, because other people knock over liquor stores too!" Pointing out that others would do the same does not absolve you of your own responsibilities.

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:17 pm 
Offline
Lean, Mean, Googling Machine
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 2903
Location: Maze of twisty little passages, all alike
Müs wrote:
The kitten had it coming.


http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/12/03/
Spoiler:
Image

_________________
Sail forth! steer for the deep waters only!
Reckless, O soul, exploring, I with thee, and thou with me;
For we are bound where mariner has not yet dared to go,
And we will risk the ship, ourselves and all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Stathol wrote:
But regardless of that, what you say is no defense. Essentially, it's like saying: "It's not my problem that I knocked over a liquor store, because other people knock over liquor stores too!" Pointing out that others would do the same does not absolve you of your own responsibilities.


Way to miss the point. I wasn't saying it was a defense. What I was reacting to was the OMG OBAMA IS THE DEBIL!!!!!!11!!!!1!one!!!! undercurrent in the posting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Khross wrote:
Aizle:

What would your defense be should Obama strangle a kitten on television and post it on his MySpace?


Khross:

What would be the obtuse point you're trying to make?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:27 pm 
Offline
adorabalicious
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 am
Posts: 5094
Aizle wrote:
Stathol wrote:
But regardless of that, what you say is no defense. Essentially, it's like saying: "It's not my problem that I knocked over a liquor store, because other people knock over liquor stores too!" Pointing out that others would do the same does not absolve you of your own responsibilities.


Way to miss the point. I wasn't saying it was a defense. What I was reacting to was the OMG OBAMA IS THE DEBIL!!!!!!11!!!!1!one!!!! undercurrent in the posting.



So we shouldn't judge him based on the actions of those he appointed and who serve at his whim but the hypothetical actions of others who you claim would do the same horrible thing?

_________________
"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:36 am
Posts: 4320
Elmarnieh wrote:
Yes lets not persue the coprruption of the legal system because it might become annoying for a bit.

If they are knowingly introducing testimony they know to be false or pruposefully hindering the introduction of evidence they need to go away (preferrably six feet away).


Indeed, corrupt people need to be punished and removed. While direct legal action against a department is one way, I don't believe it is the only way.

I also want to point out, I don't have a fully formed opinion on this, as I don't have anywhere near the detail to make an informed opinion. As I thought I made clear in my post, my initial reaction is that no one should be above the law.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 105 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group