The Glade 4.0

Let's give some people names here, just to make it easier to follow.

Say I knock up Lydiaa, and then bail on her. We'll call the baby Taamar. When Taamar is fifteen, she gets knocked up by Raltar. We'll call their baby Lenas.

I'm paying Lydiaa child support. Understandably, her needs have increased. However, Taamar is receiving child support payments from Raltar for Lenas. So am I really going to be footing the bill for this increased financial burden that Lydiaa is facing? Now I'm still in this for another three years, but you all seem to be forgetting all about Raltar when discussing whether I'm responsible for Lenas as well. Raltar needs to get his *** a job at Burger King.

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Freud?

Yeah... Freud.

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Ezekiel 23:19-20 

This is basically what I was trying to say. Just because Taamar got pregnant does not relieve Coro from his obligation.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

I just feel sorry for Lenas, poor little guy.

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The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. B. Franklin

"A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." -- Tyrion Lannister, A Game of Thrones

Theoretically, it would be possible for a girl as young as 9 to choose to have sex. And even if it's only once, she might get pregnant.

Do you still think she should no longer be legally recognized as a child? Should her parents be legally able to cut all ties to her, kick her and her new baby out on the street? And if she's no longer legally a child, she wouldn't be able to enter the foster care system, or have the support of any government services targeted to children....

Perhaps there's merit in lowering the legal age of "adulthood", but I really don't think pregnancy in itself is a good criterion for that.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Maybe Coro will have to start turning tricks to pay his child support.

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"...the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

But as it currently stands, if Raltar decides NOT to get his *** to Burger King, YOU could be legally ordered to start paying more child support to make up for the difference and you'd be footing the bill for cute little grandbaby Lenas. Even if Raltar gets a job, it's not going to pay much and his contribution to his child will be small. A good chunk of the child support that you pay to Lydiaa will wind up going to Taamar's baby regardless of whether Raltar gets his dead beat dad *** off the couch.
Also, you might be thinking to yourself, if *I* were the custodial parent, this would not have happened. We would not be arguing about paying child support to a teenager and her baby, because if *I* were the custodial parent, Taamar would not have been wearing those hoochie clothes and skipping school and *I* would have run off that horn dog Raltar before he touched Taamar in the first place...but instead of getting that chance, I have to pay for the whole situation financially.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

I think anymore I am just going to start suggesting more shooting people.

That or going Galt or both. Just leave and deny the system any fruit. Or leave in the big way and leave a crater in the system around where you were.

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Yes, because obviously when you can't have control of any given situation, the best thing to do is just blow **** up.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

People keep using "anymore" incorrectly... I still don't understand what it means.

Only the *really* cool people do.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

They would all get Fs on essays, so it's ok. I just see it every week or so. People make severe grammatical errors when using the word "anymore" which makes their whole sentence incomprehensible.

$20 sucky sucky, I've got a grandson to pay child support for?

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Buckle your pants or they might fall down.

Not about control - its about unjust imposition. Correct me if I am wrong but weren't you the original party outraged by this legal situation?

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"...but there exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom." - De Tocqueville

Since this has made it onto a second page of posts, I have to ask. How large of a problem is this really? Of the set of non-custodial parents paying child support, what is the subset of non-custodial parents paying child support for their child and grandchild?

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I'm not sure if you missed this LK, but I'd be interested in hearing your answer.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

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Yes, I brought up the original hypothetical question. But shooting someone or blowing someone up is hardly a logical solution to this, (or most), problem(s).



I have no idea. It's just a hypothetical question.


In the case of a 9 year old? I don't know if you have children, but there is a HUGE difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old. Most 9 year olds do not choose to have sex...they are sexually abused by older children or adults. The odds of a 9 year old getting pregnant are pretty slim.
The lowest age that your scenario becomes relevant would be 13 and even then, I have never heard of two 13 year olds having a baby together...it is usually a 13 year old and a 15-16 year old.
I would say that by the age of 15, if you are choosing to have consensual sex, you are old enough to suffer the consequences....as in, either put your child up for adoption, or get your GED while you work.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

...




I find it interesting that you would be willing to turn your back on a child.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

Um...when did I say I would turn my back on a child? I don't recall saying that.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

How would you expect this to be taken? At the age of 15, you still cannot get a job, you still cannot drive, you still need your parents; physically and emotionally. Not to mention, you need the love and support of those around you. A 15 year old who is about to become a parent is likely to get scared and need help at some point in time. But you are advocating that the non custodial parent should just give the middle finger to the situation and be done with it. Because it is not their problem, well I am sorry to say, but it really still is. As a parent you should be striving to take care of your children, especially when they need their mom or dad the most, like when they are scared and feel alone. You should know already that is what makes the difference between mother and father and mom and dad. To actually withhold your obligation to a child because they are having a child of their own is turning your back on a child.

Just because some people had shitty parents who turned their backs on them does not make it right to expect it to be done by others as the norm.



And? You give your money to the person the court orders, they provide support for your child. The needs of your child change, the money is spent differently.

PS- I am usually worried that I am a shitty parent, but after reading this thread, I feel so much better about my own parenting. Even though my daughter and I argue a lot... she knows I will not abandon her at a time of need.

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Darksiege
Traveller, Calé, Whisperer
Lead me not into temptation; for I know a shortcut

It would be nice if you could find statistics to back these up, instead of asserting that my scenario doesn't become relevant until 13, and is unlikely even then. I think you can find plenty of cases of sexually active 12-13 year olds in the news... And 14 is very common. Under 10 is rare, yes.. But you can't make laws that ignore things just because they're rare.

Kids are becoming sexual quite early these days, and I think that while yes, most 9 year olds are not going to have consensual sex... You are completely ruling it out, it seems. Just because something happening this young isn't the norm, doesn't mean you should re-work the laws to ignore the possibility. Really, you're arguing that under specific circumstances, a child should be considered an adult at 15-16 instead of 18.

They may be too young to understand what they're doing, but that doesn't mean the parts don't work right.

And as was mentioned by DS, most places you can't legally work at 15. You can't legally rent a house, you can't legally even get a hotel room. You can't drive.... They couldn't even legally marry the father of their child. What exactly are they supposed to do?

I have to mention... Like DS, I'm also quite astounded that you would cut a 15 year old loose just because they got pregnant... That's likely to be the time that they need the support of their family most of all.

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Darksiege: You are not a god damned vulcan homie.

Look, I have opinions, and they may not always be popular or logical or even factual.
And I don't think it's fair to judge my parental abilities based on some hypothetical debate.
My main point, which I seem to have a hard time getting across, is that I do not think its right for teenagers to decide to become parents and then expect *their* parents to continue to treat them like children.
If you want to villify me for that view, then go right ahead, but I am not going to scour the internet for sources to reinforce my OPINIONs, nor am I going to argue over semantics.
I am a face to face talker, I try my best to convert that to something readable on the internet, but I'm not very good at it because I refuse to write a research paper just to have a conversation.
If my 9 year old got a girl pregnant, I would not kick him out of the house. I don't know what I would do, but 9 years old is still a child IMO. 13 is still a child, IN MY OPINION.
14-15 is old enough to face adult consequences for adult actions. I know I'm about to be asked for facts and sources and be accused of fallacies for saying this, but aren't 14-15 year olds often tried as adults for committing certain crimes? All I am saying is that there is (arguably) a certain age where certain actions can and should cause a teenager to be treated as an adult. I won't be around forever and my primary responsibility is to prepare my kids to get along without me...if my son, when he turns 15, gets a girl pregnant, I will tell him to get his GED, work a part-time job, and take care of his kid. He will not be sitting around while I support him, he will be supporting himself...I won't let him or his kid starve to death, I'm not a cruel person, but he will need to grow up very quickly and face his responsibilities and the consequences of his actions. If that makes me an *******, well, then I guess I'm an *******.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth

An opinion is fine LK and they are not really attacking you perse. They are bringing up questions to make you think more about the reasoning behind your opinion. There is always a reason, even if it's cause of the way we're brought up, and questioning is the only way you could make rational decisions, rather than going with the trend.

I think the problem with your opinion is the cut off line. You're putting yourself in a position which is highly undefendable. You're putting your foot down emotionally without having thought through the reasoning.

You say 13 is still a kid, but 14-15 isn't. The line for that has already been drawn at 18 legally. So in order to continue a discussion, rather than stamping your foot and say "It's my opinion and I'm putting my foot down" you'll need a reason. Unfortunately in Hellfire reasoning comes down to some sort of proof... most of the time obscure and quite biased I may add

Personally I agree with you, if they decide to have a baby, then they waiver their right to be a child in the eyes of the law. Other wise, mummy and daddy could take her to an abortion clinic and things continue as they are... However it's their decision on when and how fast they want to grow up, and learn the first step into adulthood, learning to accept responsibility for their own actions.

I do that quite frequently. I think its my biggest character flaw.

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"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Jesus of Nazareth