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 Post subject: Re: Past predictions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:15 am 
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Vladimirr wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Vladimirr wrote:

Where does that food come from? Why is there "plenty" to distribute? Even assuming this is the case, most of that food is coming from large operations, fueled by machinery, petroleum, etc... These farms cost resources to operate. Assuming everyone's job goes away, where do you get the ability to run a large farm like that? Who does your planting? Who builds the infrastructure to hold your livestock? How do you transport the food? How do you regulate quality, stop disease spread, prepare for the marketplace etc... All these things don't magically happen, they occur because people work.


This is probably 5-10% of the economy. So 90% unemployment is fine.


So 5-10% of the population does the work, and 100% reaps the reward, with nothing in return from the 90%+? Even ignoring resource and throughput considerations, the only way you're going to achieve this is through slavery.


That's not true. The 5-10% would see some sort of societal benefit that I can't think of right now. Maybe they get better real estate, more energy to use, or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Past predictions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:20 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Vladimirr wrote:
So 5-10% of the population does the work, and 100% reaps the reward, with nothing in return from the 90%+? Even ignoring resource and throughput considerations, the only way you're going to achieve this is through slavery.


That's not true. The 5-10% would see some sort of societal benefit that I can't think of right now. Maybe they get better real estate, more energy to use, or something.


Fair enough.

Where does the energy come from? Another segment of the population who is doing work to build and maintain energy production and distribution systems?

How about real estate? How is it acquired, if there is no exchange of resources? Would it be a king-of-the-hill system where you stake your claim and then defend it against any challengers?

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Last edited by Vladimirr on Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Past predictions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:26 am 
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Vladimirr wrote:
Lex Luthor wrote:
Vladimirr wrote:
So 5-10% of the population does the work, and 100% reaps the reward, with nothing in return from the 90%+? Even ignoring resource and throughput considerations, the only way you're going to achieve this is through slavery.


That's not true. The 5-10% would see some sort of societal benefit that I can't think of right now. Maybe they get better real estate, more energy to use, or something.


Fair enough.

Where does the energy come from? Another segment of the population who is doing work to build and maintain energy production and distribution systems?

How about real estate? How is it acquired, if there is no exchange of resources? Would it be a king-of-the-hill system where you stake your claim and then defend it against any challengers?


We have existing real-estate, and maintenance is not very labor intensive. The energy comes from the 5-10% I mentioned. I don't know about the last question.


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 Post subject: Re: Past predictions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:28 am 
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Lex Luthor wrote:
Vladimirr wrote:
Fair enough.

Where does the energy come from? Another segment of the population who is doing work to build and maintain energy production and distribution systems?

How about real estate? How is it acquired, if there is no exchange of resources? Would it be a king-of-the-hill system where you stake your claim and then defend it against any challengers?


We have existing real-estate, and maintenance is not very labor intensive. The energy comes from the 5-10% I mentioned. I don't know about the last question.


You are assuming the population has some resource (X) to exchange in order for goods and services. Also assuming we're talking about reality, any (X) is a limited resource. It doesn't matter if (X) is food, energy, cash, the concept is the same. People have to have a way to aqcuire (X), they spend time to do it, and that's called work.

Back to real estate - existing real estate is owned by individuals. That real estate was aqcuired by resources, produced through work. Do you propose that the owners of the real estate make a deal with the businesses doing the production, to swap real estate for energy and supplies? To put it more simply, even if you managed to trade someone your house and land in exchange for a lifetime supply of food and never had to work again, where would you live? Even if you successfully made this agreement on an individual basis, how would this scale up to the point where 90% of the population made this agreement?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:42 am 
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Woo lets restructure society based on the only flaw being that farmers might not produce food if that societal thing that Lex can't think of right now might not form.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:03 pm 
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So I got to thinking. The end result would be bands of roving unemployed people, living hand-to-mouth, leeching off of people who were actually working, roaming around the country side singing and partying all day? We tried that already. Damn hippies.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Vladimirr wrote:
So I got to thinking. The end result would be bands of roving unemployed people, living hand-to-mouth, leeching off of people who were actually working, roaming around the country side singing and partying all day? We tried that already. Damn hippies.


Hey...the 60's sounded awesome. I wish I'd lived through it. Uh...and then been able to remain the same age I am now.

Huh. If I have that type of control over my age, I might as well be perpetually 21.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:21 am 
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Talya wrote:
Huh. If I have that type of control over my age, I might as well be perpetually 21.
26 is the age you're looking for ...

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