The Glade 4.0

But Nev should have had the transaction stored "on the network", since it was a legitimate purchase.

Or, your explanation is wrong.

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In time, this too shall pass.

It wasn't on the network. He left his funds inside of mtgox.com. If he decided to withdraw those funds then they would have sent them to him across the network.

Then every transaction isn't on the network.

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In time, this too shall pass.

True, most transactions of money are not across the Bitcoin network.

That would be true if trading was halted, but to "roll back" transactions is more than that.

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In time, this too shall pass.

Like I said, Mtgox can do whatever they want internally. If you send your Bitcoins to them through the Bitcoin network, they won't necessarily send you them back. They can "roll back" and decide not to give you what's fair.

lol... wow...

Apparently, bitcoins are a secure currency until you try to exchange them for something.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

I'd say this is very true at this point, based on nothing legally backing up trades and lack of good faith and trust.

Rolling back a transaction reverses a transaction, your explanation isn't an example of a rollback.

I believe you think you understand what you're taking about, but it's pretty obvious to me that there are aspects of the trading mechanism you're unfamiliar with.

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In time, this too shall pass.

If you make a trade at Mtgox, at which point Mtgox has 100% control of your funds, then they can rollback. Your funds remain in the Bitcoin wallet of Mtgox before and after the trade, and it is up to them to honor any future withdrawals based on your Mtgox account balance.

There's a high likelihood that your account gets hacked and your funds get stolen, your trades get rolled back, or a chance that Mtgox goes offline indefinitely.

If you buy some of the currency and they record the transaction, it gets posted in the bit coin and on the network, if you've correctly explained the process. For them to do a rollback, they would have to either restore the virtual item to a previous state, nullifying the trade...and abandoning the idea that the transitions are stored in the network, OR, they would have to force another transaction onto the item and the network without consent.

Or, it's not really a rollback, but since they say it is, I'm thinking it is.

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In time, this too shall pass.

None of the transactions that occur between traders at Mtgox.com are in the Bitcoin network. However sending dollars or Bitcoins to Mtgox or withdrawing them is on the Bitcoin network.

I'm sure those words mean something to you, but to me they're contradictory.

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In time, this too shall pass.

If I'm understanding it correctly, the transactions that happen on mtgox are different from transactions happening on the bitcoin network. The only transaction involving bitcoin is when the mgtox user withdraws or deposits bitcoins, and the transaction is between mtgox and the user.

I'm not exactly sure how else they would do it. The exchange can only rollback / reverse mtgox transactions (trades of BTC and USD from user's mtgox accounts). If the exchange could actually reverse bitcoin transactions (withdrawal and deposits of BTC to and from the site), that would mean bitcoin does not work the way they claim it does.

The problem with this is the users who withdrew bitcoins (irreversible bitcoin transaction mtgox has no control over) from their accounts AFTER the attack.

For instance, say you have 10000 USD and 0 bitcoin in your mtgox account (NOT the same as the bitcoin wallet stored locally)

Mtgox gets hacked

Unaware that this is happening, you place a bid for bitcoins 500 bitcoins at 10 USD per bitcoin

The bid goes through and you purchase 500 BTC for 5000 USD

Your account balance is 5000 USD ; 500 BTC

You withdraw the bitcoins from your account, the withdrawal limit is equal to 1000 USD, so you are only able to withdraw 100 bitcoins to your bitcoin wallet.

Your mtgox account will then be 5000 USD and 400 bitcoins, while your personal wallet.dat file located on your hard drive will contain 100 bitcoins sent from mtgox.

Mtgox goes offline

---- If they reverse the mtgox transactions that took place after the hack before the site went offline, what will happen?

My 100 bitcoins are for me to keep , they're totally secure in my wallet file.

My transaction on mtgox cannot be rolled back completely. They can't give me back my 5000 dollars, because I don't have 500 bitcoins. I only have 400 available.



So...it will be interesting to see how they take care of this problem.

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Ron Paul 2012

It will also be interesting to see if the price will drop substantially or not.

The EFF announced it's stopped accepting bitcoin donations.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/06/eff-and-bitcoin

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In time, this too shall pass.

It's pretty odd how they started accepting them, and then stopped just a few weeks later.

Probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

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In time, this too shall pass.

The worst thing that could happen is people lose faith in the Bitcoin system. They will be worthless no matter how much publicity they have.

I'm fascinated by the whole thing and it feels like a plot right out of a William Gibson novel. It's a great experiment and I'm still trying to get my head around all of it: virtual money that's also a commodity.

That is also a bad thing that could happen, which hasn't yet if you looked at the prices. And I agree.

this guy's channel is pretty interesting

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Ron Paul 2012

Nah. I think Cryptonomicon makes Neal Stephenson the go-to cyberpunkist for this plot.

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"Aaaah! Emotions are weird!" - Amdee
"... Mirrorshades prevent the forces of normalcy from realizing that one is crazed and possibly dangerous. They are the symbol of the sun-staring visionary, the biker, the rocker, the policeman, and similar outlaws." - Bruce Sterling, preface to Mirrorshades

Getting "Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC" this morning. Haven't touched anything in a while. Is this just me?

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Holy shitsnacks!

I haven't mined in a while. I am assuming you are using btcguild.com, if so try logging in and see if something is up.