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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:26 am 
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This is breaking news so I don't think there's a comprehensive story yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:37 am 
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Why make a post? You don't even have anything to talk about! Good grief. And what does "childs" even mean? Were you in such a hurry to be the first person to post "breaking news ZOMG!" without even an article or so much as an OPINION, even, that you didn't have time to even have your title make grammatical sense??

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:39 am 
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LadyKate wrote:
Why make a post? You don't even have anything to talk about! Good grief. And what does "childs" even mean? Were you in such a hurry to be the first person to post "breaking news ZOMG!" without even an article or so much as an OPINION, even, that you didn't have time to even have your title make grammatical sense??


Having some monthly issues? Anyways here is a story. These forums have a size limit for thread titles.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_supreme_c ... ideo_games

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WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court on Monday refused to let California regulate the sale or rental of violent video games to children, saying governments do not have the power to "restrict the ideas to which children may be exposed" despite complaints about graphic violence.
On a 7-2 vote, the high court upheld a federal appeals court decision to throw out the state's ban on the sale or rental of violent video games to minors. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Sacramento had ruled that the law violated minors' rights under the First Amendment, and the high court agreed.
"No doubt a state possesses legitimate power to protect children from harm," said Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion. "But that does not include a free-floating power to restrict the ideas to which children may be exposed."
The California law would have prohibited the sale or rental of violent games to anyone under 18. Retailers who violated the act would have been fined up to $1,000 for each infraction.
More than 46 million American households have at least one video-game system, with the industry bringing in at least $18 billion in 2010.
Unlike depictions of "sexual conduct," Scalia said there is no tradition in the United States of restricting children's access to depictions of violence, pointing out the violence in the original depiction of many popular children's fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, Cinderella and Snow White.
Hansel and Gretel kill their captor by baking her in an oven, Cinderella's evil stepsisters have their eyes pecked out by doves and the evil queen in Snow White is forced to wear red hot slippers and dance until she is dead, Scalia said.
"Certainly the books we give children to read — or read to them when they are younger — contain no shortage of gore," Scalia added.
But Justice Clarence Thomas, who dissented from the decision along with Justice Stephen Breyer, said the majority read something into the First Amendment that isn't there.
"The practices and beliefs of the founding generation establish that "the freedom of speech," as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors (or a right of minors to access speech) without going through the minors' parents or guardians," Thomas wrote.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:10 am 
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"No doubt a state possesses legitimate power to protect children from harm," said Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion. "But that does not include a free-floating power to restrict the ideas to which children may be exposed."


I'd say this is the salient point. Justice Thomas later says that the First Ammendment doesn't include a right to communicate ideas to children without their parents' consent, but if not, it would seem that's properly the role of parents to determine, not the government.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:31 am 
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While I agree with Justice Thomas that there are no such rights as the right to speak to minors, or the right for minors to access speech, it's not the purview of government to restrict them; it's in the scope of parental (and/or private) responsibility to do so.

Retailers are still free to refuse to sell to minors, and parents are still free to prohibit their minor children from purchasing such things.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:20 am 
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Don't we have the ESRB for this? I mean, you can't get into an R rated movie, but you can buy an M game?

I also think its the parent's responsibility to not be morons.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:22 am 
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Yes. California wanted to criminalize it, though, so it could collect fines from organizations that ignored it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:58 am 
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While they are at it, why not fine the parents who let their kids access PG movies without the appropriate parental guidence?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Müs wrote:
Don't we have the ESRB for this? I mean, you can't get into an R rated movie, but you can buy an M game?

I also think its the parent's responsibility to not be morons.

Movie ratings are voluntary for theaters, just like video game ratings...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Until California tries to criminalize it... That's what Hannibal was saying -- if you're going to try, why not try to get cash from theaters, too?

Too late for that now, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Kaffis Mark V wrote:
Until California tries to criminalize it... That's what Hannibal was saying -- if you're going to try, why not try to get cash from theaters, too?

Too late for that now, though.


California is just going for the easy buck. Or so they thought. But hey they've gotta earn that unfriendly to business title somehow.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:16 pm 
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It should be the parents' and stores' place to sell or not sell inappropriate video games to childs. Or as they say in English, "children."


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:24 pm 
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I don't really care about this one way or the other. If/when I was/am a parent I would/will be the final arbitrator of content appropriateness.

At the same time I have a hard time feeling as if Cali was putting huge unprecedented restrictions on commerce. As mus pointed out, ratings based censorship is nothing new.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I don't really care about this one way or the other. If/when I was/am a parent I would/will be the final arbitrator of content appropriateness.

At the same time I have a hard time feeling as if Cali was putting huge unprecedented restrictions on commerce. As mus pointed out, ratings based censorship is nothing new.


Making it a criminal offense removes you as the final arbitor, however. It gives the government the job you want.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Rynar wrote:
Rorinthas wrote:
I don't really care about this one way or the other. If/when I was/am a parent I would/will be the final arbitrator of content appropriateness.

At the same time I have a hard time feeling as if Cali was putting huge unprecedented restrictions on commerce. As mus pointed out, ratings based censorship is nothing new.


Making it a criminal offense removes you as the final arbitor, however. It gives the government the job you want.

I could still buy my kids God of War or GTA if I wanted to right? Also how is this different from the movie threatre, where children can't get into R Rated movies without an adult, or is that all industry motivated?

I get personal responsibility, I just can't bring myself to feel It's time to raid sacromento or call for the resignation (or worse) of justices if this was upheld.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:45 pm 
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My understanding is that you could face civil penalties. I could be wrong.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Ezekiel 23:19-20 


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Okay. I see.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Rorinthas wrote:
I just can't bring myself to feel It's time to raid sacromento or call for the resignation (or worse) of justices if this was upheld.
As time goes by, I have begun to suspect that this is one of the problems with our current government system. **** never cost the government officials themselves anything personally. I'm not saying that necessarily need to be drawn and quartered, but neither am I willing to discount it outright as being too extreme.

Perhaps we shouldn't be executing first-time offenders. Maybe on the first "bad call" they can get by with a broken leg. Maybe we need the 2012 Patriotism Act (not to be confused with the Patriot Act), where we put together Lewis Black's infamous gay banditos and have them destroy a few American families - specifically, the immediate family of ******* politicians.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:40 pm 
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The problem with that is that what you see as a ****, others may see as the correct decision. I'm not interested in anyone facing personal consequences for political heresy, regardless of what that might be.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Each piece of legislation struck down by the SC costs the legislators' offices who wrote or contributed to the law's wording a year's pay. Fines go to paying down principle on owed federal debts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:03 pm 
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See, now we're at a more constructive argument than calling people lunatic whackjob muppets.

I'm on board with this plan. I think it's a good foundation, but it has some flaws. If you assess the fine to the person's office, they're still able to evade any actual consequences. Remember, these are the people who **** around with the budget after all. I would be inclined to assess the fine to the politician personally, but that might run afoul of the same problem. It's a good starting point, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:55 pm 
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That would probably result in more corruption, not less. It's still actually possible to get into a state senate without being an incredibly rich person. This suggestion would definitely change that, as people without a shitload of money wouldn't be able to risk it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:43 pm 
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Political winds change all the time. Once upon a time laws limiting human slavery were found to be unconstitutional. I think it's a bit extreme to hold politicians accountable for life and limb or even money for something so fickle. Term limits is a far better solution.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:03 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Political winds change all the time. Once upon a time laws limiting human slavery were found to be unconstitutional. I think it's a bit extreme to hold politicians accountable for life and limb or even money for something so fickle. Term limits is a far better solution.


When companies make poor product decisions, they pay for it with the loss of revenue. It should be no different for legislators who make poor law drafting decisions.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:05 am 
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Rorinthas wrote:
Political winds change all the time. Once upon a time laws limiting human slavery were found to be unconstitutional. I think it's a bit extreme to hold politicians accountable for life and limb or even money for something so fickle. Term limits is a far better solution.


Nope. I'm more comfortable erring on the side of individual responsibility, opposed restricting those who might be holding an office in good faith, and doing the work of the people, only to forcibly replace them.

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19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

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