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 Post subject: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:27 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091111/ap_on_re_us/us_sniper_execution

Silent DC sniper mastermind Muhammad executed

First Person: Witness to Muhammad Execution Play Video AP – First Person: Witness to Muhammad Execution

by Dena Potter

JARRATT, Va. – Sniper John Allen Muhammad refused to utter any last words as he was executed, taking to the grave answers about why and how he plotted the killings of 10 people that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area for three weeks in October 2002.

The 48-year-old died by injection at 9:11 p.m. Tuesday as relatives of the victims watched from behind glass, separated from the rest of the 27 witnesses at Greensville Correctional Center, south of Richmond.

Muhammad was executed for killing Dean Harold Meyers, who was shot in the head at a Manassas gas station during the spree across Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C.

He never testified or explained why he masterminded the shootings with the help of a teenage accomplice. That left questions unanswered about why he methodically hunted people going about their daily chores, why he chose his victims, including a middle schooler on his way to class, and how many victims there were.

Muhammad stepped into Virginia's death chamber and within minutes was lying on a gurney, tapping his left foot, his arms spread wide with a needle dug into each.

"Mr. Muhammad, do you have any last words?" the warden asked. Muhammad, looking calm and stoic, said nothing.

Meyers' brother, Bob Meyers, said watching the execution was sobering and "surreal." He said other witnesses expressed a range of feelings, including some who were overcome with emotion.

"I would have liked him at some point in the process to take responsibility, to show remorse," Meyers said. "We didn't get any of that tonight."

After the first of the three-drug lethal cocktail was administered, Muhammad blinked repeatedly and took about seven deep breaths. Within a minute, he was motionless.

Nelson Rivera, whose wife, Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, was gunned down as she vacuumed her van at a Maryland gas station, said that when he watched Muhammad's chest moving for the last time, he was glad.

"I feel better. I think I can breathe better," he said. "I'm glad he's gone because he's not going to hurt anyone else."

J. Wyndal Gordon, one of Muhammad's attorneys, described his client in his final hours as fearless and still insisting he was innocent.

"He will die with dignity — dignity to the point of defiance," Gordon said before going inside to watch the execution.

The terror ended on Oct. 24, 2002, when police captured Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo while they slept at a Maryland rest stop in a car they had outfitted for a shooter to perch in its trunk without being detected.

Malvo, who was 17 when carrying out the attacks, was sentenced to life in prison without parole for killing Linda Franklin, a 47-year-old FBI analyst who was shot as she and her husband loaded supplies at a Home Depot in Falls Church, Va.

The men also were suspected of fatal shootings in other states, including Louisiana, Alabama and Arizona.

The U.S. Supreme Court turned down Muhammad's final appeal Monday, and Gov. Timothy M. Kaine denied clemency Tuesday.

Muhammad's attorneys had asked Kaine to commute his sentence to life in prison because they said Muhammad was severely mentally ill.

"I think crimes that are this horrible, you just can't understand them, you can't explain them," said Kaine, a Democrat known for carefully considering death penalty cases.

A small group of death penalty opponents gathered on a grassy area near the prison and had a sign reading, "We remember the victims, but not with more killing."

Muhammad was born John Allen Williams and changed his name after converting to Islam. He had been in and out of the military since he graduated from high school in Louisiana and entered the National Guard. He joined the Army in 1985. He did not take special sniper training but earned an expert rating in the M-16 rifle — the military cousin of the .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle used in the D.C.-area shootings.

The motive for the attacks remains murky. Malvo said Muhammad wanted to extort $10 million from the government to set up a camp in Canada where homeless children would be trained as terrorists. Muhammad's ex-wife said she believes they were a smoke screen for his plan to kill her and regain custody of their three children.

Sonia Hollingsworth-Wills, the mother of Conrad Johnson, the last man slain that October, sat in the back seat of a car outside the prison before the execution, which she chose not to witness. But she said she wanted to be there and was counting the minutes until Muhammad's death.

"It was the most horrifying day of my life," she said. "I'll never get complete closure but at least I can put this behind me."

Cheryll Witz, who's father, Jerry Taylor, was fatally shot on a Tucson, Ariz., golf course in March 2002, said she was unhappy that Muhammad didn't say anything before he died. But she said his execution begins a new chapter in her life.

"I've waited seven long years for this," she said. "My life is totally beginning now. I have all my closure, and my justice and my peace."

____________________________

As I age, I think I'm changing my mind on executing criminals. I've been in favor of it most of my life, and still feel it has a place. I'mnot sure it should be done as often as some states are doing it. The seeming increase in wrongly convicted people based on the gotta win aspect of prosecution bothers me. This isn't one of those cases. Mohammed was guilty, of that I'm sure. Still, in his case I would almost have preferred life without possibility of parole, to give him time, a longtime, to reach a point where he could realize how wrong he was and reach a point where he could feel remorse. The media didn't mention some unsolved murders he is suspected of in California. He lived here for awhile too. If he was guilty those murders will likely never be solved, not executing him may someday have given those families answers. The families back east who now know that he will never hurt another person. The families here do not know who killed there loved ones, they don't get that relief.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:43 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
Still, in his case I would almost have preferred life without possibility of parole, to give him time, a longtime, to reach a point where he could realize how wrong he was and reach a point where he could feel remorse.

This sentiment completely baffles me.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:44 pm 
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Good riddance. Sometimes I admire the dedication of those against the death penalty. I respect their intentions, but reject their idea, some people need to be removed.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:51 pm 
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"The first mistake any free people make is giving the power of execution to their government." -- Someone whose name I forget.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:55 pm 
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You're right. He should have been thrown into a street and executed by the public.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Khross wrote:
"The first mistake any free people make is giving the power of execution to their government." -- Someone whose name I forget.



I can understand the sentiment, but what do with him then? mob justice? Given over to the family of the victims?

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Mob violence is rarely the answer. I imagine I prefer the Southern solution to such situations, although I doubt it is helpful to the conscience of the person that resolves the problem. In cases where doubt is nil and guilt is absolute, they probably shouldn't make it to trial. Paper work is easier to handle that way. And no one says anything.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Khross wrote:
In cases where doubt is nil and guilt is absolute


Who gets to determine when that is the case?

I have no moral issues with the ultimate price being paid for the ultimate crime. I tend to believe people are guilty, but there's always this nagging doubt. How would I feel if I were falsely accused, the evidence stacked against me, everyone believed I did it, though I did not? I wonder how many times the "Fugitive" scenario actually plays out: the innocent person, wrongly convicted, perhaps even framed, pays the price for it.

I agree with your first statement, Khross. We don't want to give our governments the power to execute its people. The slope is quite slippery...and down it they'll slide.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Talya:

And that's the problem with the situation. I can't make that determination. I'm not sure anyone can except in the rarest of circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Micheal wrote:
"I've waited seven long years for this," she said. "My life is totally beginning now. I have all my closure, and my justice and my peace."


Lady.. Vengeance is what you have, not justice.

Not that I am against the death penalty. I just do not feel that it is dispensing justice. It is vengeance IMHO. I personally think it would have been a better call to give life imprisonment and torture the guy every day; to serve as a reminder of what he did.

I do also like the idea of letting the public kill him.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:23 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
I personally think it would have been a better call to give life imprisonment and torture the guy every day


That would most certainly be vengeance.

Justice is "an eye for an eye." There is a reason lady justice is depicted as holding a pair of scales. Justice represents a balancing, an equality. If the punishment exceeds the crime, then you are talking about vengeance. He brutally snuffed the lives of people, but quickly, painlessly, instantly. A bullet to his head, assuming he is for a certainty guilty, is without question justice, in the truest sense.

My issue, like Khross, is not with the morality or ethics of capital punishment, or the meaning of justice, but rather with giving the government the power to carry it out, which can be abused. Furthermore, i have the added concern that we might have the wrong person, in any situation. I fear that risk is much too high...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Talya wrote:
That would most certainly be vengeance.


I most definitely realize it would be vengeance. I make no claims that my way would be more just. I would want the prick to suffer as much as possible... this is why I would not make a good public official or deity...

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:37 pm 
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darksiege wrote:
deity...



If I believed in one of those, I might have less of a problem with all of this. For the Christian, the innocent, good man falsely convicted and executed still finds paradise in the loving arms of his creator, while the unrepetant monster who duped the world and got away with it his whole life must still face up to his actions after death.

But without any such belief, any idea that justice can be reliably found is a faerie tale.

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Well Ali Baba had them forty thieves, Scheherezade had a thousand tales
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...Mister Aladdin, sir, What will your pleasure be?
Let me take your order, Jot it down -You ain't never had a friend like me

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Good riddance.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Talya wrote:
If I believed in one of those, I might have less of a problem with all of this. For the Christian, the innocent, good man falsely convicted and executed still finds paradise in the loving arms of his creator, while the unrepetant monster who duped the world and got away with it his whole life must still face up to his actions after death.

But without any such belief, any idea that justice can be reliably found is a faerie tale.


For me use of the word diety in this situation is coming from the point of view where it is believed that one's own will in pure form is nothing other than the divine will (everyone is a god in their own right).... I believe that is Thelemic law, but I might be wrong. (and potentially to a lesser extent hinduism?)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Funny thing is, my first time golfing was on the golf course where he killed his first victim while practicing for the big event.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Michael society has no useful benefit in paying for the man's long and thoughtful reflection even if it does come. He is an animal to be removed and nothing more. His own reflection is of no concern.

And it isn't vengence vengence is done to cause suffering - life in prisonment in order for someone to feel imprisoned and "rot" is vengefull. He simply got what he gave - death.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:48 pm 
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It's sad that 7 years is considered a quick amount of time from sentance to execution in a case like this.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:17 pm 
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Tossing my hat in with the anti-death penalty crowd, even for this bastard.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:17 pm 
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Screeling wrote:
Funny thing is, my first time golfing was on the golf course where he killed his first victim while practicing for the big event.


Drove right by, and nearly stopped at, a gas station where another of his killings happened. Granted this was a few years after the fact. But my buddy that lives a few blocks away never told me! I did a double-take when I was reading an article about this guy yesterday, then tracked down the exact address of the gas station, and sure enough...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Elmarnieh wrote:
Michael society has no useful benefit in paying for the man's long and thoughtful reflection even if it does come. He is an animal to be removed and nothing more. His own reflection is of no concern.

And it isn't vengence vengence is done to cause suffering - life in prisonment in order for someone to feel imprisoned and "rot" is vengefull. He simply got what he gave - death.


There's a great deal of truth in this. Given the psychological consequences of life imprisonment, the death penalty is in many ways more merciful.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Tell that to the people on death row. Some may agree, but I dare say many would not.

While I share Khross' position on government and giving it the power to kill, I also think that miscarriages of justice can lead to the taking of an innocent person's life. That is too great a risk. I think we *must* spend the money to keep these people alive, in order to always have the chance to release one that winds up being innocent. I am not interested in murdering innocent people in order to preserve some idea of "justice" or to save money.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Monte wrote:
Tell that to the people on death row. Some may agree, but I dare say many would not.


So what? They're not psychologists.

Quote:
While I share Khross' position on government and giving it the power to kill, I also think that miscarriages of justice can lead to the taking of an innocent person's life. That is too great a risk. I think we *must* spend the money to keep these people alive, in order to always have the chance to release one that winds up being innocent. I am not interested in murdering innocent people in order to preserve some idea of "justice" or to save money.


It's not murder if an innocent person is executed as long as all their rights were observed in the process, just as its not kidnapping if they were jailed.

As for giving the government the power to kill, we're not simply handing it the power to execute whoever it pleases. That's just "ZOMG I don't trust the gummint cause its the gummint" nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Sniper Executed
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:07 pm 
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I believe that those in government "sent for the pushiment of evil doers" are "Ministers of God" and "Bareth not the sword in vain" (Romans 12)

I also think our government is a fairly good and just steward of that power as far as stewards go.

I also believe there is no perfect answer or system for this age.

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