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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:14 am 
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Ok...where is the thread on this one. Did I miss it somewhere? I was hoping to have at least 3 pages of posts to read up on it by now...come on, I actually WATCHED THE WHOLE THING! I did my homework for once, haha! :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:47 am 
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The general public is tired of this administration and its shenanigans already, LK. I didn't want the address; I can barely tolerate our President opening his mouth.
The Speech as Documented by the Washington Post
Quote:
As Prepared for Delivery –

Good evening. Tonight, I want to talk about the debate we’ve been having in Washington over the national debt – a debate that directly affects the lives of all Americans.

For the last decade, we have spent more money than we take in. In the year 2000, the government had a budget surplus. But instead of using it to pay off our debt, the money was spent on trillions of dollars in new tax cuts, while two wars and an expensive prescription drug program were simply added to our nation’s credit card.

As a result, the deficit was on track to top $1 trillion the year I took office. To make matters worse, the recession meant that there was less money coming in, and it required us to spend even more – on tax cuts for middle-class families; on unemployment insurance; on aid to states so we could prevent more teachers and firefighters and police officers from being laid off. These emergency steps also added to the deficit.

Now, every family knows that a little credit card debt is manageable. But if we stay on the current path, our growing debt could cost us jobs and do serious damage to the economy. More of our tax dollars will go toward paying off the interest on our loans. Businesses will be less likely to open up shop and hire workers in a country that can’t balance its books. Interest rates could climb for everyone who borrows money – the homeowner with a mortgage, the student with a college loan, the corner store that wants to expand. And we won’t have enough money to make job-creating investments in things like education and infrastructure, or pay for vital programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

Because neither party is blameless for the decisions that led to this problem, both parties have a responsibility to solve it. And over the last several months, that’s what we’ve been trying to do. I won’t bore you with the details of every plan or proposal, but basically, the debate has centered around two different approaches.

The first approach says, let’s live within our means by making serious, historic cuts in government spending. Let’s cut domestic spending to the lowest level it’s been since Dwight Eisenhower was President. Let’s cut defense spending at the Pentagon by hundreds of billions of dollars. Let’s cut out the waste and fraud in health care programs like Medicare – and at the same time, let’s make modest adjustments so that Medicare is still there for future generations. Finally, let’s ask the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations to give up some of their tax breaks and special deductions.

This balanced approach asks everyone to give a little without requiring anyone to sacrifice too much. It would reduce the deficit by around $4 trillion and put us on a path to pay down our debt. And the cuts wouldn’t happen so abruptly that they’d be a drag on our economy, or prevent us from helping small business and middle-class families get back on their feet right now.

This approach is also bipartisan. While many in my own party aren’t happy with the painful cuts it makes, enough will be willing to accept them if the burden is fairly shared. While Republicans might like to see deeper cuts and no revenue at all, there are many in the Senate who have said “Yes, I’m willing to put politics aside and consider this approach because I care about solving the problem.” And to his credit, this is the kind of approach the Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner, was working on with me over the last several weeks.

The only reason this balanced approach isn’t on its way to becoming law right now is because a significant number of Republicans in Congress are insisting on a cuts-only approach – an approach that doesn’t ask the wealthiest Americans or biggest corporations to contribute anything at all. And because nothing is asked of those at the top of the income scales, such an approach would close the deficit only with more severe cuts to programs we all care about – cuts that place a greater burden on working families.

So the debate right now isn’t about whether we need to make tough choices. Democrats and Republicans agree on the amount of deficit reduction we need. The debate is about how it should be done. Most Americans, regardless of political party, don’t understand how we can ask a senior citizen to pay more for her Medicare before we ask corporate jet owners and oil companies to give up tax breaks that other companies don’t get. How can we ask a student to pay more for college before we ask hedge fund managers to stop paying taxes at a lower rate than their secretaries? How can we slash funding for education and clean energy before we ask people like me to give up tax breaks we don’t need and didn’t ask for?

That’s not right. It’s not fair. We all want a government that lives within its means, but there are still things we need to pay for as a country – things like new roads and bridges; weather satellites and food inspection; services to veterans and medical research.

Keep in mind that under a balanced approach, the 98% of Americans who make under $250,000 would see no tax increases at all. None. In fact, I want to extend the payroll tax cut for working families. What we’re talking about under a balanced approach is asking Americans whose incomes have gone up the most over the last decade – millionaires and billionaires – to share in the sacrifice everyone else has to make. And I think these patriotic Americans are willing to pitch in. In fact, over the last few decades, they’ve pitched in every time we passed a bipartisan deal to reduce the deficit. The first time a deal passed, a predecessor of mine made the case for a balanced approach by saying this:

“Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment? And I think I know your answer.”

Those words were spoken by Ronald Reagan. But today, many Republicans in the House refuse to consider this kind of balanced approach – an approach that was pursued not only by President Reagan, but by the first President Bush, President Clinton, myself, and many Democrats and Republicans in the United States Senate. So we are left with a stalemate.

Now, what makes today’s stalemate so dangerous is that it has been tied to something known as the debt ceiling – a term that most people outside of Washington have probably never heard of before.

Understand – raising the debt ceiling does not allow Congress to spend more money. It simply gives our country the ability to pay the bills that Congress has already racked up. In the past, raising the debt ceiling was routine. Since the 1950s, Congress has always passed it, and every President has signed it. President Reagan did it 18 times. George W. Bush did it 7 times. And we have to do it by next Tuesday, August 2nd, or else we won’t be able to pay all of our bills.

Unfortunately, for the past several weeks, Republican House members have essentially said that the only way they’ll vote to prevent America’s first-ever default is if the rest of us agree to their deep, spending cuts-only approach.

If that happens, and we default, we would not have enough money to pay all of our bills – bills that include monthly Social Security checks, veterans’ benefits, and the government contracts we’ve signed with thousands of businesses.

For the first time in history, our country’s Triple A credit rating would be downgraded, leaving investors around the world to wonder whether the United States is still a good bet. Interest rates would skyrocket on credit cards, mortgages, and car loans, which amounts to a huge tax hike on the American people. We would risk sparking a deep economic crisis – one caused almost entirely by Washington.

Defaulting on our obligations is a reckless and irresponsible outcome to this debate. And Republican leaders say that they agree we must avoid default. But the new approach that Speaker Boehner unveiled today, which would temporarily extend the debt ceiling in exchange for spending cuts, would force us to once again face the threat of default just six months from now. In other words, it doesn’t solve the problem.

First of all, a six-month extension of the debt ceiling might not be enough to avoid a credit downgrade and the higher interest rates that all Americans would have to pay as a result. We know what we have to do to reduce our deficits; there’s no point in putting the economy at risk by kicking the can further down the road.

But there’s an even greater danger to this approach. Based on what we’ve seen these past few weeks, we know what to expect six months from now. The House will once again refuse to prevent default unless the rest of us accept their cuts-only approach. Again, they will refuse to ask the wealthiest Americans to give up their tax cuts or deductions. Again, they will demand harsh cuts to programs like Medicare. And once again, the economy will be held captive unless they get their way.

That is no way to run the greatest country on Earth. It is a dangerous game we’ve never played before, and we can’t afford to play it now. Not when the jobs and livelihoods of so many families are at stake. We can’t allow the American people to become collateral damage to Washington’s political warfare.

Congress now has one week left to act, and there are still paths forward. The Senate has introduced a plan to avoid default, which makes a down payment on deficit reduction and ensures that we don’t have to go through this again in six months.

I think that’s a much better path, although serious deficit reduction would still require us to tackle the tough challenges of entitlement and tax reform. Either way, I have told leaders of both parties that they must come up with a fair compromise in the next few days that can pass both houses of Congress – a compromise I can sign. And I am confident we can reach this compromise. Despite our disagreements, Republican leaders and I have found common ground before. And I believe that enough members of both parties will ultimately put politics aside and help us make progress.

I realize that a lot of the new members of Congress and I don’t see eye-to-eye on many issues. But we were each elected by some of the same Americans for some of the same reasons. Yes, many want government to start living within its means. And many are fed up with a system in which the deck seems stacked against middle-class Americans in favor of the wealthiest few. But do you know what people are fed up with most of all?

They’re fed up with a town where compromise has become a dirty word. They work all day long, many of them scraping by, just to put food on the table. And when these Americans come home at night, bone-tired, and turn on the news, all they see is the same partisan three-ring circus here in Washington. They see leaders who can’t seem to come together and do what it takes to make life just a little bit better for ordinary Americans. They are offended by that. And they should be.

The American people may have voted for divided government, but they didn’t vote for a dysfunctional government. So I’m asking you all to make your voice heard. If you want a balanced approach to reducing the deficit, let your Member of Congress know. If you believe we can solve this problem through compromise, send that message.

America, after all, has always been a grand experiment in compromise. As a democracy made up of every race and religion, where every belief and point of view is welcomed, we have put to the test time and again the proposition at the heart of our founding: that out of many, we are one. We have engaged in fierce and passionate debates about the issues of the day, but from slavery to war, from civil liberties to questions of economic justice, we have tried to live by the words that Jefferson once wrote: “Every man cannot have his way in all things…Without this mutual disposition, we are disjointed individuals, but not a society.”

History is scattered with the stories of those who held fast to rigid ideologies and refused to listen to those who disagreed. But those are not the Americans we remember. We remember the Americans who put country above self, and set personal grievances aside for the greater good. We remember the Americans who held this country together during its most difficult hours; who put aside pride and party to form a more perfect union.

That’s who we remember. That’s who we need to be right now. The entire world is watching. So let’s seize this moment to show why the United States of America is still the greatest nation on Earth – not just because we can still keep our word and meet our obligations, but because we can still come together as one nation. Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.
Make of what you will ...

The fool disgusts me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:58 am 
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I watched it, and noted multiple contradictions from speeches given to groups like La Raza. I also noted multiple omissions, and several outright lies. In short Obama has nothing of value to say or do.

I said this before and ill type it again. Obama was the liberal kamikaze pilot sent to enact and entrench their wish list whether the public wants it or not.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:13 am 
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Did you guys watch John Boehner's rebuttal? I thought is was VERY well put.
Is it true that the only thing that is standing in the way of all of this is The President himself?
I am not as good at politics as most of you, but even I was able to pick out so many half-truths, omissions, and twisted facts from Obama's speech that it made me angry. I know what it feels like to be one of those people easily swayed by emotions in politics without knowing all the facts and just *trusting* what I'm being told (I know I know, shocking isn't it?), so the things that he was saying that were meant to manipulate the emotions of the not-so-educated-politically seemed pretty awful, especially that he was alluding to the idea that if it didn't go the way he pictured it, then old people would lose their benefits and the military wouldn't get paid.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:58 am 
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No it's not true LK.

From my perspective, the President has been more than reasonable on this and it's the extreme partisanship on both sides, although lately it's definately more prevalent on the Republican side.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:19 am 
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Aizle wrote:
No it's not true LK.

From my perspective, the President has been more than reasonable on this and it's the extreme partisanship on both sides, although lately it's definately more prevalent on the Republican side.
You'd be wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:40 am 
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Aizle wrote:
No it's not true LK.

From my perspective, the President has been more than reasonable on this and it's the extreme partisanship on both sides, although lately it's definately more prevalent on the Republican side.



You are very wrong. Obama hasn't even given specifics on what he plans to include in the "shared sacrifice". He says that alot but has yet to mention what he and his ilk would be wiling to sacrifice. He's a fool and people who support him are either just really that far to the left or are doing everything they can to save face for voting for this moron.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:50 am 
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Shared sacrifice is hope and change for the 2012 election.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:06 am 
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Aizle wrote:
No it's not true LK.

From my perspective, the President has been more than reasonable on this and it's the extreme partisanship on both sides, although lately it's definately more prevalent on the Republican side.


I have not seen a Democrat plan. As I understand the little pieces that Obama has verbalizes, he wants to raise taxes on only a few, and raise spending across the board. Then he is proposing to cut spending. After just raising it...... its fuzzy math and accounting tricks again.

Right now we spend 40% more than we can afford to. Noone is arguing that the federal government is overspending AND overreaching. Both sides are trying to preserve the perks for their bases. Except Obama. He is divorced from economic and political reality with his statements.

The Republicans have beenquite public with their proposals. I feel the only way to make Obama actually come to the table and negotiate would be to have the TV cameras there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:11 am 
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Do people actually believe that Obama and/or the Democrats are outright lying about the $4 trillion cut they've proposed? As in they're just waiting to get their debt ceiling increase and then will do the equivalent of "ha ha, fooled you" and then just proceed not to cut anything?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:14 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
Do people actually believe that Obama and/or the Democrats are outright lying about the $4 trillion cut they've proposed? As in they're just waiting to get their debt ceiling increase and then will do the equivalent of "ha ha, fooled you" and then just proceed not to cut anything?


Um like has happened every other time? I think under Bush 1 was a good example.

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What "every other time?" You seem to be under the impression that it instantly ceases to "count" and turns into a lie/deception if total spending is ever raised above the level that it was cut to, regardless of who was responsible for the increase or why it was done.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:26 am 
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It's a lie. The bill the Democrats are trying to get out of the House includes more new spending than it does cuts. They're just shuffling numbers on the ledger.

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LadyKate wrote:
Is it true that the only thing that is standing in the way of all of this is The President himself?

Only in the sense that the Republicans are so afraid of their base that they refuse to agree to anything that might be seen as compromising with the devil Obama.

Here's the way a good-faith compromise would play out in theory:

  • Step 1: The Dems' preference is that we simply raise the debt ceiling with no deficit-reduction strings attached (like we've always done); and the Reps' preference is that we not raise the debt ceiling at all. The compromise position would therefore be to raise the debt ceiling and couple it with a deficit reduction package.
  • Step 2: The Dems preference is for the deficit reduction to be done entirely through tax increases; the Reps' preference is that it be done entirely through spending cuts. The compromise position is a mixture of both.
  • Step 3: The Dems' preference is that the mixture be mostly tax increases; the Reps' preference is for mostly spending cuts. The compromise position is a 50/50 split.
  • Step 4: The Dem's preference is for the tax increases to be exclusively on corporations and the wealthy and the cuts to be exclusively from defense and corporate subsidies; the Reps' preference is (supposedly) for broad-based tax reform and cuts to entitlement programs. The compromise is to do a bit of all of those things.

So, the true middle position between the Dems and Reps would be to raise the debt ceiling and couple it with a deficit reduction package consisting of (i) 50% tax increases from slightly higher rates on the wealthy and some broad-based reforms and (ii) 50% spending cuts hitting both defense and entitlements.

In reality, the Dems have proposed multiple packages that are all weighted more to the Reps' preference, and the Republicans have said no to every offer. The Dems suggested a deficit reduction package consisting of 25% taxes and 75% spending cuts, but the Reps said no. They suggested a package that was only 15% taxes (all of them from closing loopholes and ending tax subsidies) and 85% spending cuts, including cuts to entitlement programs, but the Reps said no. Now the Dems have even proposed a package that is 100% spending cuts, and the Reps in the House are saying no.

After all that, when Boehner says it's the President standing in the way, he's just flat lying.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:38 am 
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This was directed at Khross, but really, it can go to RD as well.

Spoiler:
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:44 am 
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Good read by Victor Davis Hanson

Our Ten-Trillion-Dollar Man

Borrowing Is No Longer Stimulus?

The Congressional Budget Office not long ago forecast that Barack Obama’s $1 trillion-plus annual deficits — scheduled over the next decade — would result in almost another $10 trillion in aggregate debt. Going back to the pre-Bush tax rates this time won’t balance the budget. Slashing discretionary spending will not. So large has the splurge become, and so hooked are the constituencies of federal money, that massive cuts to entitlements necessary to stave off financial implosion may well prompt Greek-like protests.

That staggering sum was apparently conventional wisdom until the November 2010 election. But now there is fear that at some point in the future, Obama will not be known as the first African-American president. Nor will he be cited even as the hope-and-change phenomenon of 2008. Instead, posterity shall know him as the single greatest borrower in American presidential history, a novice who nearly wrecked the U.S. economy by borrowing over $4 billion a day without any feasible proposal how to pay back such a vast sum — taking a post-recession recovery and turning it into a stagflationary mess. In the third year of his tenure, Obama is still left only with “Bush did it” as an explanation of what went wrong.

Obama has managed the nearly impossible: the greatest peacetime deficits in U.S. history — about $1.5 trillion per year — in his first three years achieved almost no economic expansion. Instead, unemployment is chronic and stays over 9.2%; growth is stagnant; gas is sky-high — and the president seems stunned that none of what he had promised came to pass. All his liberal nostrums have been tried and been found wanting. There is no successful EU model, no winning blue-state statist paradigm for guidance.

Remember that his key advisors — Goolsbee, Orszag, Romer, Summers — have now quit and did not last even three years, their policies orphaned by the very parents who spawned them. Even the president joked that “shovel-ready” was a joke. When he evokes “stimulus” and “investment,” in response, we do not even think “borrowing” and “taxes,” but rather “he’s clueless again.” The old argument that we simply did not borrow enough (say, $5, $6, $7 billion a day?) is laughable beyond the point of caricature, given that the administration followed the Bush record of record peacetime debt. The only mystery is whether the massive Obama borrowing was a product of incompetence, a poorly thought out gorge the beast way of increasing taxes and redistributing income, or a more cynical effort at creating a permanent constituency of millions of new food stamp recipients and federal workers. Or more than that still.

Your Debt And None Of Our Own

Obama himself recently proposed a massive deficit budget that not a single Democrat in the Senate could vote for; then suddenly he flipped, and said that red ink of the sort that he ran up was now unsustainable. When did the president of the United States metamorphosize from the greatest Keynesian in presidential history to a fiscal hawk — January? March? April 1?

As he calls for higher taxes, he still has not offered any plan whatsoever that details where the president himself would cut. Remember that he conceded in December that higher taxes were bad; but by July they were then good again. He courts Wall Street one day for campaign money, yet on another calls them “fat cat” bankers and deplores their jets. Food stamps recipients now number 50 million — and we dare not imagine that even one has taken a dime without good cause.

The would-be employer is told to hire, but on what confident supposition, what rationale? That he knows well the tax rate to come, the health care costs to come, the regulations to come, the pro-business, veteran CEO appointee to come, the next presidential slur to come? Apparently Obama believed that capitalists were so greedy, so wealthy, so money-hungry that they would not mind much the redistributive obstacles he erected.

He talks grandly of getting America back to work, as his subordinates try to close down a Boeing aircraft plant, layer more regulations and burdens on energy production, reverse the order of creditors in the Chrysler mess, and take over GM — even as he continues the old “spread the wealth” and “redistributive change” adolescent rants with newer, sillier faculty lounge concoctions, claiming that at some point we have made enough money and that he himself has hundreds of thousands of dollars in income that he does not need and thus should have higher taxes on. (If so, please, help the Treasury out by offering to pay the gas for the Costa del Sol, Vail, and Martha’s Vineyard first-family freebies). One expects such banalities from the college dorm lounge, but not the middle-aged president of the United States.

Carter 2.0

Abroad the misdirection, confusion, and petulance mirror-image the debt mess. In Libya we have no mission aim, no methodology, and no desired outcome — our consolation only that Libya is a tiny country compared to a nearly 30-million person Afghanistan or Iraq. Obama went to the Arab League and the UN, but not the U.S. Congress for authorization — but to do what? Help the rebels? Enforce a no-fly-zone? Kill Gaddafi? Overthrow the government? All, some, or none?

All such mission objectives have come and gone. Now Italy has joined Germany and half of NATO in opposing the effort — apparently on the logic that either Obama will eventually give up on an oil-rich Gaddafi, or that he should, given the bleak replacement prospects. France, which cooked up the campaign, is fence-sitting. Is this the new multilateral “leading from behind”? The only reason I can think why we bombed Gaddafi, and then allowed him to survive, is that we ourselves are terrified of the possible end-game and aftermath, given that we have little idea of who the rebels are, and even less whether they would be better, the same, or worse than the horrific status quo. If and when they storm Tripoli, expect a pogrom against any sub-Saharan African in Gaddafi’s pay, or, rather, any sub-Saharan African in general still in Libya.

The uncertainty in Libya is like that in Afghanistan, which the president once praised as the good war, then failed to meet his commanders for months, then escalated, then suddenly decided to start pulling out in fears of reelection in 2012, even as he appointed his fourth ground commander in less than three years. All that was sort of like pontificating that drilling new oil does not lower gas prices, but pumping previously drilled oil out of the strategic petroleum reserve apparently might in time before November 2012. Or was it similar to praising campaign finance reform, then being the first president to reject it? Or was it analogous to blasting Goldman Sachs and BP after hitting them up for cash and becoming their most favored recipient?

Bush Obama Did It.

Remember the Obama 2007-8 demagoguery on the war on terror? We live now in Lala land where the bad Bush’s Guantanamo, Predators, renditions, tribunals, preventative detention, Iraq, Afghanistan, wiretaps, and intercepts have become the good Obama’s protocols. We, the public, are supposed to nod and in Orwellian fashion get with the new Ministry of Information line, screaming at Bush on the big screen as the bad becomes good, the old good bad.

Remember the Cairo mythological speech, the falsehoods about an Islamic-enhanced Enlightenment and Renaissance, a multicultural Cordoba (with few Muslims in the late 15th century?) being an Islamic beacon of tolerance during the Inquisition? Remember the administration commentary on the underwear bomber, on Maj. Hasan, on the Ground Zero mosque, on trying KSM in New York? The al Arabiya interview, the sermons to Israel, the bowing to Saudi royals?

Juxtapose all that with the Obama’s administration outlawing of “jihadist,” of “terrorism,” of “Islamist.” His team instead gave us “overseas contingency operations” and “man-caused disasters,” seemed to think that the Muslim Brotherhood is secular, and proclaimed that Israel — not Hamas, not Hezbollah, not Iran, not Syria (recall Assad the “reformer”) — is the problem in the Middle East.

Obama Is Obama

So we have what we have always had — the most partisan and the least experienced man in the U.S. Senate as president, elected by a perfect storm of events (e.g., the 2008 meltdown, the media adulation, the anemic McCain candidacy, the furor over Bush and the Iraq war, the orphaned election without a single incumbent, etc.), in which no one was allowed to ask “Who is this stranger?” and “What has he ever done?”, in which the media finally gave up its last shred of impartiality and became a megaphone, as we were assured that Mr. Obama’s most intimate associates were really total strangers, his once praised avid church-going was merely sporadic, his most partisan voting record was in truth bipartisan, and his bad habits of saying disturbing things were simply a symptom of racialist, raise-the-bar nitpicking on behalf of his Neanderthal critics.

In short, Obama came into office with all the Carteresque assumptions on how to take over a private-sector economy and outsource foreign policy to international bodies. He now finds to his utter amazement — as Carter discovered in late 1979 after Teheran, Afghanistan, and Central America — that in the real world none of what worked in word worked in deed. Those who assured Obama that his Harvard lounge fantasies were real have either quit, are now offering new advice, or are criticizing him for once taking them at their word.

So what is he left with? Not much other than hoping that all the ten-trillion-dollar man’s printed money finally starts inflation to coincide with the 2012 election. Otherwise, we get only the same-old, same-old: blame Bush for the deficit each week; or a slur about starving granny with Social Security cuts; or a speech from an African-American congresswoman from the floor of the House attesting to the racism behind doubting Obama can do the job. Nothing much more than that.

The Wages of the 1960s

Obama, you see, is our nemesis. He is a totem, the logical manifestation of a warped media, the reification of some crazy — and arrogant — ideas about redistributive politics, the statist economy, and cultural and social life that permeated American life the last forty years. He is the president with a 1,000 faces that we have all seen at work, on TV, throughout American life, and at some point the odds determined that we had to have a rendezvous with him— perhaps a catharsis to teach us the wages of Keynesian debt, of a social policy contrary to human nature with its equality of result doctrines, of an all-powerful, all-growing unaccountable government, of the now hip ambiguity about past American protocols and history. Obama is the exaggeration of all the dubious ideas that arose since the 1960s — brought to fruition on his watch, delivered by mellifluous cadences by an untouchable persona.

In fact, a Barack Obama was long overdue. Had he not appeared out of nowhere in 2008, we would have surely had to invent him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:45 am 
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http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-its-tempt ... on-my-own/

At least he is growing more honest in his desire to be a dictator.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:57 am 
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You can't say that the stimulus "failed" because unemployment is still 9%. You don't know what unemployment would be without it. If taxes had been cut instead, how do you know the businesses would have spent that extra money hiring Americans, instead of just building more factories in China?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:00 am 
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By the same token you can't say it, or any other piece of legislation succeeded either. However you can say we were promised (threatened perhaps) that it wouldn't go above 8% if we passed it. We can also look at the horrendously high amount of dollars spent per job created or saved(whatever that means).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:32 am 
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Xequecal wrote:
What "every other time?" You seem to be under the impression that it instantly ceases to "count" and turns into a lie/deception if total spending is ever raised above the level that it was cut to, regardless of who was responsible for the increase or why it was done.

How many of the measures included in Obamacare to help offset the cost so it "wouldn't contribute to the deficit" (hard not to laugh at that) were then subsequently cut out of the program? It was full of "promises" to cut funding or increase efficiency through various programs to pay for this plan, several of which were major sums of money. How many have been removed, yet nothing set to replace the cost savings to keep the plan neutral?

Of course, if you look at Reid's "lifesaver" bill he's holding, a lot of his savings come from ending the military actions currently in progress. Yeah, that's going to happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:33 am 
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RangerDave wrote:
Only in the sense that the Republicans are so afraid of their base that they refuse to agree to anything that might be seen as compromising with the devil Obama.

If I recall correctly, Obama stated he would Veto the bill that passed one of the houses already via support from both sides of the aisle.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:44 am 
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RD

I have to ask, why do you assume a compromise is a good solution to this problem?

Compromise is by default a lose/lose scenario. There are also plenty of situations where compromise is not a good path to follow (I want to invade your county, you don't want me to - compromise is I invade half your nation. Next year I want to invade all of your nation again...)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:47 am 
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I have nothing to contribute to this thread, except this picture, which made me laugh harder than I have in a long time..

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:47 am 
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Ladas wrote:
RangerDave wrote:
Only in the sense that the Republicans are so afraid of their base that they refuse to agree to anything that might be seen as compromising with the devil Obama.

If I recall correctly, Obama stated he would Veto the bill that passed one of the houses already via support from both sides of the aisle.


Amazing, a party trying to appease those that voted for them...such self interest! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:49 am 
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Ladas wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
What "every other time?" You seem to be under the impression that it instantly ceases to "count" and turns into a lie/deception if total spending is ever raised above the level that it was cut to, regardless of who was responsible for the increase or why it was done.

How many of the measures included in Obamacare to help offset the cost so it "wouldn't contribute to the deficit" (hard not to laugh at that) were then subsequently cut out of the program? It was full of "promises" to cut funding or increase efficiency through various programs to pay for this plan, several of which were major sums of money. How many have been removed, yet nothing set to replace the cost savings to keep the plan neutral?

Of course, if you look at Reid's "lifesaver" bill he's holding, a lot of his savings come from ending the military actions currently in progress. Yeah, that's going to happen.


Still, "every other time" makes it seem like this has been happening for awhile. Federal spending was not even looked at as a major issue until the second Bush presidency. Reagan started the trend of insane spending, but we didn't care because of the Evil Communists. The first Bush lost his Presidency over raising taxes - but all anyone cared about was the taxes, not the spending. Spending was so high Bush #1 had to raise taxes, and he got killed over it. Nobody cared about federal spending during Clinton because it was a boom and the budget was nearly balanced. Only during the second Bush presidency did anyone start making any noise about it, but he still had the vast majority of conservative support because he cut taxes, even though he massively increased spending at the same time.


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